Right to Privacy

[brin]

Here is the problem guys, the way I see it...Everyone agrees we have a big problem with health care costs and something has to be done to correct the problems. The new health care bill gives the government control over 1/6 th of our economy and most reasonable folks don't like that idea since they see how the government has managed other endeavors such as the Post Office, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security etc. all of these programs are either bankrupt or nearly bankrupt. Wouldn't it be a better idea to fix that part of health care that needs fixing and leave the rest alone ? Where are the doctors and hospitals going to come from, not to mention the money , to treat 30 million more people not to mention if illegal immigrants get amnesty that will add another 16 million and each of them can bring in their relatives once they become citizens..There is a lot more I could post but I will leave it there.

 

[Chuck52]

Bob,

Thanks for your description of your thoughts on the matter. I understand your reluctance to trust the government to handle yet another big program. I even share it to a fairly high extent. However, I come down on the other side of the equation. I think in part this is due to my belief that health care is "special" and not just another commodity. I am aware that nowhere in the Constitution is health care defined as a right, but then at the time of the writing of the Constitution "health care" was something to avoid if at all possible. Many of the same folks who wrote the Constitution participated in writing the Declaration of Independence, and there is that phrase about "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" in that document, and I would argue that without adequate health care all three of those inalienable rights get hard to pursue. I don't trust private enterprise to guarantee me safe food, water, air or health care, without government vigilance, and I know that government vigilance is often inadequate to those jobs, but it is what we have. I do not place absolute faith in government, but some things just should not be completely trusted to the free market. As I've said before and never been answered, if you and a really rich guy are in a closed space with limited air, does he get the last breath because he has the most money? If there is some market driven source for the air, he does.

Chuck

 

[2manyrocks]

FDIC insured banks are subject to examination by banking examiners for "safety and soundness" since the 1930's. They have regulatory power to shut down a bank for unsafe banking practices and they have the power to ban particular individuals from working at an FDIC insured institution thereafter.

There was an S & L meltdown in the early 90's. Now we have a banking meltdown over subprime mortgages.

The guys running this mess are definately at fault, but the regulatory system also failed to police them IMHO.

Some heads rolled at the SEC for being asleep on watch when Bernie Madoff was stealing from investors. Some other heads need to roll, too.

Practically speaking, you might find a lawyer who'll take on a private insurance company if they mess you over. But it is an entirely different ballgame to litigate with the government because they don't keep an eye on their P & L statement. Litigation costs mean nothing to them.

Doesn't anyone else find it odd that liberals are mad because they are being told to buy private insurance or be fined, and conservatives are mad because they are being told to buy private insurance or be fined?

 

[20 20]

On one side we have the Government.

On the other side we have private corporations.

In the middle we have the consumer.

Both have their hands in our pockets, but these last few years IMHO the private corporations with Wall Streets guidance have set me back more than my government ever has.

BINGO

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

I had no part in removing your other attempt at a political discussion. I assume one of the moderators did what they are supposed to do. Frankly I don't give a rat's ***** if you ignore my comments....you clearly have your own ideas about reality and I certainly wouldn't want you to have to think.

One example: I have never said or implied that your VA coverage was free to you. My father served in WWII, my older brother served in Vietnam, and my older son served a tour in the Navy. I am quite happy they received and still receive the medical care they earned, as I am happy you receive the medical care you earned. I don't think the great majority of Americans should receive FREE medical care. The whole argument is who is the middle man between the patient and the medical provider. You seem to want that to be a private insurance company which is obviously trying to make money on the process. I don't even argue that the company should not be trying to make money. I simply think that the government could collect money from us and pay the medical providers, and do it at a cost savings for the populace of the United States, as is done for you, except that where you earned your medical care by your service, the rest of the population would pay for theirs through the agency of a government plan. The people would still be paying, so there is no free lunch, just perhaps a somewhat less expensive lunch. Clearly, some citizens would indeed get "free" medical care under such a system, but they already do! It would just make that part of the system more organized and transparent. I further think that all of you who are already covered by a government plan, which you EARNED, should be exempt from paying into this other government plan....you certainly should not have to pay twice, by your service and out of your pocket. Is that clear enough? Do you understand it would not be FREE?

Now, it is clear that most correspondents on this discussion group agree more with you than with me on this subject, as they trust private enterprise more than government. I can live with that. Remember, however, that this is a limited groups and does not come close to representing the population of these United States. However, I would like to think that a fairly high proportion even of this group can tell the difference between FREE medical care and what I see as a reasonable alternative, which would certainly not be free.

Chuck

Sad, really that you feel the need to use obscenity AND a personal attack in response to my post.
Why the anger Chuck?
As I told you, I am more than willing to engage you on the field of ideas, IF you don't feel the need to insult people.
As to your relatives service, I salute them, as should you.
I am reminded of the inauguration speech of JFK. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask, what you can do for your country" Obviously your father and brothers answered that call.

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

On one side we have the Government.

On the other side we have private corporations.

In the middle we have the consumer.

Both have their hands in our pockets, but these last few years IMHO the private corporations with Wall Streets guidance have set me back more than my government ever has.

Two points:
1.NO corporation can put their hand in your pocket, they can only take what you give them.
On the other hand, Don't pay your taxes, and they will do a lot worse than put their hand in your pocket.
2. You must have a REALLY good accountant if you pay less in taxes, than you paid for health care.
Can I get his name?

 

[FallbrookFarmer]

Cyril, I know it's early there It was all sarcasm, it makes no sense at all. Just be sure you go about your day with your proof of insurance card taped to your forehead :laughing:
Dave.

Or better yet, have your Social security number tattooed on your B-tt That way when the tax man comes and says bend over, you'll be prepared

 

[dcyrilc]

Or better yet, have your Social security number tattooed on your B-tt That way when the tax man comes and says bend over, you'll be prepared

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

That was good.

 

[Bedlam]

Howdy FallbrookFarmer,
Check's in the mail.
Dave.

Youll get it on a Saturday.oops thats another thread lol
reference

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/related-topics/166742-residential-mail-do-you-need.html

 

[MossRoad]

Thread closed.