Rifle advice

[radman1]

Asking opinions about rifles can be worse than asking what kind of tractor to buy but here it goes. More level heads on TBN than anyother forum I have been on. Been hunting with shotguns for many years (35+) and really like my Benelli super black eagle 12 ga semiauto. Also have a Browning Auto-5 12 ga, Winchester 1400 20 ga auto and Remington 870 wingmaster. The pump Remington was given to me but I am just too entrenched with the autos to use it properly. For me the pump is a one shot gun. It is too late when I realize I have to actually pump it for the next shot.
Have been shooting semi auto 22's for lots of years with current gun a Ruger 10\22. Never hunted larger game but started hunting deer about 4 years ago with bolt action Winchester model 70 308 with Leupold 4.5x14 40mm scope. I bought the gun used from my BIL with originally a fixed 4x scope and last year upgraded the scope. The scope cost considerably more than the used gun. It will consistently shoot 1" 3 group shots at 100 yards. As a land owner, I can shoot 2 deer/year. 8 deer later, I am hooked. All were 1 shot, 1 deer and all less than 200 yards. However, last year, saw a massive trophy buck but probably closer to 400+ yards in an open field. The wind was in my estimation 10-15 mph. I had never shot at that distance but with 14X, I gave it a try. I could only rely on the ballistic drop charts for the estimated distance. The deer was broadside and I believe the bullet hit the ground 12" from his front foot based on a puff of dirt. I wasn't using a bench rest but had a very steady rest for the gun. I realize that shot is probably not realistic unless I do more target practice, better load and better conditions. I am looking for a flatter trajectory load with the ability to use on deer or bigger game if needed. The 300 WM seems like just too much kick and abuse. I like the idea of the newer 300 WSM (whinchester short mag) which is suppose to have the ballistics of a 300wm but less kick and shorter action like a 308. However, instead of bolt action, I keep leaning toward semi auto like a Browning BAR. I have read that the BAR with 300 WSM has a kick similar to a bolt action 270. I have fired many non auto shotguns but the kick of an auto just seems so much tamer than nonautos and I shoot 3-3.5" shells. Semi autos just don't seem very popular in the rifle world. Can the semi auto have the accuracy of the bolt action? Has anyone hunted with the 300 WSM? Should I just get the bolt action with 300 WSM? If so, what brand/model? Do I need to invest in a range finder? If so, what brand/model?
For me, quality and reliability is more important than $$ (within reason). I don't buy and trade guns much. I keep the good/great guns and the sons get the leftovers.

 

[om21braz]

IMHO, I'd invest in a reloader, rangefinder, and do plenty of shooting at the distances up to the max. range I would expect to take a shot - some may have killed deer past 400 yds. w/ .308 but they knew the rifle well. You did not mention whether or not you reload, if not I'd suggest beginning. Between reloading and some rifle tuning (glassbed, etc.) can really make a difference in how accurate your rifle is. If you have looked at trajectory charts for your .308, you've seen the difference in BD at 400yds. with just a 50 yd. miss in yardage judgement - not to mention wind drift. Knowing exactly how much a certain load drops at a given distance is invaluable in order to put a bullet in the vitals - don't just take the charts for granted.
Also, you cannot assume because a particular load groups MOA at 100yds. that it will remain constant at extended ranges. I've had loads that sometimes are better/worse @ 200-300yds. than 100. Spending time on the bench, finding an optimum load for all ranges, tweaking the rifle (if necessary) and using a rangefinder should enable you to take deer up to 400yds. with the rifle you have - people don't just pull a rifle out for hunting season, go out and shoot deer at 400yds. and put it up. If they do, I'll paraphrase the words of Peter Capstick - " They must be saints, shooting at deer with mighty sinful pasts" lol.
Check the link below for a link to a reasonably priced rangefinder and I'm sure others here will add plenty of good tips and illustrations also. Good luck bringing home the monster buck!

Bushnell - Sport 600 5-800 yards [202201]

 

[Sigarms]

The 300 WM seems like just too much kick and abuse.

I have a Remington 700PSS in a .300 WM. I can shoot pretty much any weight bullet all day long and the gun really doesn't bother me, and personally, I don't enjoy shooting "kicker" guns.

and do plenty of shooting at the distances up to the max. range

+1

I had never shot at that distance but with 14X, I gave it a try.

I'm sorry, IMO while hunting that was kind of irresponsible on your end (unless you HAD to have the meat to survive).

Semi autos just don't seem very popular in the rifle world.

In some states, semi autos rifles are illegal for hunting.

Never shot a .300 WSM, but I know a couple buddies that own Short Magnums. Sorry, don't know which caliber, but they tell me they do kick like a mule. My understanding is they came up with the the short magnum due to the action length and apparently getting a more uniform ignition. My .300 WM shoot's better than me, and never really had a hankering to get something else to replace it.

 

[texasjohn]

you have the right attitude and approach... 1 shot, 1 deer... and done it more than once.

IMHO, 400 yards is pushing it outside the range of reliability.... if you are going to attempt this range rather than wait/stalk for a shot at a more reliable 100 to 200 yards (kinda getting out there), you are right in thinking you need flat trajectory and big time knock down power. The ballistics tables are the best info you will get on this.... no one single person has personal experience with all types of calibers and loads and everybody will say they like what they use.

Me, I like a 30-30 for shorter range, fast shooting, brush. A 270 for more range, etc. I use lever action and bolt action.

Also, plan on a huge amount of practice at this distance.... to find the load you like and become comfortable that you can call the shot.

That said, shot placement is more important than rapid fire. 1 shot, 1 deer down...why shoot again? Many believe that a bolt action is inherently more accurate than an automatic, me included. I certainly don't want to be in the neighborhood when somebody starts opening up with an automatic on a running deer. You likely wouldn't do that, but with an automatic, you can.

 

[Egon]

Your .308 will do just fine at 400 yards. Take it to the range and use it at different distances so you are not guessing.

 

[Tororider]

I agree that your .308 should do find at 400 yards with the correct windage and practice. If you are looking for a new rifle, check out these guys.

ER Shaw Custom Gun Barrels

I haven't bought from them, but have seen several articles about how nice their barrels are, match grade type quality, and they can make you a rifle for less than $1000. I think I saw the most recent article in Field and Stream.

Good Luck.

 

[SPIKER]

one thing I have not seen posted yet, is if you plan on shooting that range often then you need to go with a bolt action, a semi-auto uses up much of the power that would normally be directed into the round as it travels down the barrel. That is also part of the reason the semi-autos have less KICK into your arm/shoulder. The act of discharging the spent round and loading up a new round takes power, usually away from the gas charge which is directing the round down range.
I have no comments on the caliper or round specifics as you would be best talking to the person at the local gun dept for the best amount of ideas for your local terrain/conditions.
Mark

 

[archerm3]

No reason a 308 cant be good out to 400 yds..you just need to practice those yardages before you expect to be proficient hunting at those yardages...No switch to any caliber is going to make you more accurate at those kinds of ranges, it's more of a "lifestyle change" approach to your shooting that needs to occur, not a caliber change. Yardage estimation, wind estimation, steady hold, shot timing, all those things you have to be excellent at when you shoot those yardages.

IME, I have never seen nor heard of anyone, except in this thread, of anyone that gets better groups at longer distances than at shorter distances, because of a particular hardware combination. The only physical explanation for that is an increase in shooter concentration or sight picture fidelity. Bullets don't go out of trajectory and then come back in line...

I don't think a caliber change is going to give you the results you're looking for. If you're looking for an excuse to acquire a new smokepole, then by all means I'm for it.

As far as autoloaders, you should be able to get huntable 400 yd accuracy out of an M1A or perhaps a DPMS Panther/ Remi R25, not sure on the BAR (but I wouldn't rule it out). But you gotta do your homework as far as testing the loads and testing your skills before you take it hunting.

 

[om21braz]

IME, I have never seen nor heard of anyone, except in this thread, of anyone that gets better groups at longer distances than at shorter distances, because of a particular hardware combination. The only physical explanation for that is an increase in shooter concentration or sight picture fidelity. Bullets don't go out of trajectory and then come back in line....

I'll admit it sounds crazy, but was repeated w/ same rifle/same load/same bench/same conditions/same day with 3 different shooters of known ability in a caliber known for accuracy (6ppc). Only does this w/ 75gr. V-Max ? I cannot explain it beyond doubt, I just know what we experienced - your mileage may vary. Now back to your regular scheduled programming

 

[RobertN]

Your 308 should have ok energy left at 400 yards. I think that would be at the far end of it's effective range though.

You could rebarrel your rifle to another caliber/cartridge...

As far as accuracy, I have heard for years, do not shoot if you can not put all your rounds on a regular paper plate at a given distance; that is about the same size as the vital area on a deer.

Whiz bang range finders are nice. You obviously shoot a lot; range time really helps. Especially when you drop the range finder, or the battery dies...