Replacing our old tractors

nwngunner · Jul 25, 2010

Currently i have a 1650 oliver gas, and an international 806 gas. The oliver is rated between 60 and 67 hp, the 806 is rated right around 90pto, i couldnt find an engine hp, i suspect its right around 120.

Both of my tractors are old and are having some serious problems. The 806 wont turn when its cold, and i just blew a clutch in the oliver. I plan on keeping both tractors and rebuilding my oliver. How ever neither one of them is four wheel drive. Where i am in the mud 9 out of the 12 months of the year putting hay in to my cattle ect ect i am looking for a new tractor.

Here are the criteria that i am looking at.
Must be around the 80 to 90 horse power range. "806 was more tractor then i need" " oliver was just a little small."

I need a FEL also a back hoe.
Four wheel drive is a must.
Dont want a cab. " will be using this in the trees and the cab just gets in the way. dont know if you can get one with the back hoe anyway."

Something that ag tires on, i need something with some hellish traction.
540rpm pto, none of the equipment is high speed.

Have the power to pull a round baler, 9 foot bine ect ect.

Reason for the back hoe, is have alot of wash on my farm i need to deal with. Culverts have to be put in, also planning on using it to dig a pond.

Need the fel with a good digging bucket for same as above as well as cleaning barn yards and barn.

Class 2 3point is a must, as that is what my current equipment fits.

Any one have any suggestions that would be greatly welcome. Looking at both new and used. I know its going to be expensive, but i am tired of not having what i need.

1950T · Jul 25, 2010

if it were me id do a 12v cummins conversion on that 1650. oliver used SAE#2 bellhousings and a cummins bolts right up. but then again i have a softspot for olie's

jenkinsph · Jul 25, 2010

If you are looking for something comparable with a few upgrades consider a Deere 6100D, 82 pto hp,,with mfwd, 18.4 34 rears, 13.6 24 fronts, dual outlets, 9F 9R power reverser tranny, 540/1000pto, telescopic links for about $44,000 list and should be able to buy around $40,000. I think that is a good deal of tractor for the money. If needed 18.4 38 rears are available too.

McGeesEquip · Jul 25, 2010

If you get out looking I would take the time to look at some of the McCormick units. They are currently offering the frontend loader program on tractors that size. I would look at the C-Max Series and the CX Series. They are both available with ROBS that size.

If most of your work is draw bar pulling then the C-MAX series will be what you should look more at. Both series use the Perkins engines.

Both units will have both the 540 RPM shaft and a 1000 RPM shaft, and both shafts are the 21 spline.

nwngunner · Jul 25, 2010

Not saying all of my work is drawbar. I do alot of 3point work and loader work as well. I have a rear bale mover, blade, 7foot brush hog. Also i do plan on using the front end loader for digging cleaning putting up hay in the barns ect ect. Need a well rounded tractor. I would like to say in something around the size of the oliver physcialy or a little smaller.

I know i am asking alot, but i see alot of these new tractors are packing alot of punch in a little box. My primary hay bar has 10foot wide entry ways, so the more narrow i can keep the tractor the better off i am. Two years ago, my 806 slid in the mud and i took out a main post in the barn. That was not a happy day.

jenkinsph · Jul 25, 2010

You might consider a Deere 5000 series tractor in that case but if as you say you want hellish traction I would look towards the 6000 series. Just a better size for what you are doing IMHO.

nwngunner · Jul 25, 2010

Issues i have with jd. You pay more green for their color green. What is inside that green is not always supperior. We have a new dealer in the area our old one sold out, so i am very leary on service. How ever i will take a look @ the 6000. I looked At the 6100 with the rops and while its a nice tractor and fits what i need, before i even get the loader and the backhoe attachments "if they make one for that tractor" i am already look @ over 50grand.

TripleR · Jul 26, 2010

I recently purchased a Kubota M8540 that I have been pretty impressed with as to features, power and price. John Deeres tend to be more expensive in my area and I don't care for the dealers. I also considered the JD 5000 Series. I really liked the 6000 Series, but really don't need that much tractor and can't/won't spend that kind of money.

jenkinsph · Jul 26, 2010

nwngunner said:
Issues i have with jd. You pay more green for their color green. What is inside that green is not always supperior. We have a new dealer in the area our old one sold out, so i am very leary on service. How ever i will take a look @ the 6000. I looked At the 6100 with the rops and while its a nice tractor and fits what i need, before i even get the loader and the backhoe attachments "if they make one for that tractor" i am already look @ over 50grand.

Don't know how you get " over 50grand" when I just quoted under $44,000 list price. The 6100D is an economy tractor and I suspect the discount off msrp will be less. So I would hope for about 10% off of list, and buy for $40,000. This is about the same as buying a new pickup truck in cost.

The 806 was a rock solid tractor design and one of the better tractors that IH made. Looks like you have had many years of use out of it. A similar sized tractor with upgrades today isn't going to be cheap and never was either.

Your issues with Deere green paint, well I have heard this BS before on the forum with little basis for it. For me it is all about the cost of operation over many years and good tractors are built by several manufacturers. Pick one that you like. I do prefer Deere equipment after having a multitude of brands and suggested according to your post a Deere that I suspect will fit your needs.

art · Jul 26, 2010

The 806 is a very strong tractor but it might be in need of quite a few things with it's age. The first thing that would hurt that tractor is that it is gas! That also holds true for the Oliver!

I'd be looking for a older TLB!!!!! Something below ten grand as you will have a lot more then you'd have by adding one to the back of a tractor.

The depth of the digging and the strength would assist you with your digging and you wouldn't have to spend time hooking and unhooking the backhoe for different work.

I know both of the tractors that you have and not knowing if you have rebuilt the engine on either there life should be about 3,500 hours. So I'd assume that you don't put many hors on them in a year. You might do well to stay larger and go used where a few deals might come by.

American Bulldog · Jul 26, 2010

I used to be true green, but I have had a bit of a falling out with Deere. They have sold me some equipment that could not handle the task at hand. I don't mind paying more, but it really irks me when the macchine won't do the job.

Just because something is green, doesn't mean that it can handle it. This was a mistake that I made.

jenkinsph · Jul 26, 2010

art,

All the 806 tractors I have seen were diesels.

jenkinsph · Jul 26, 2010

American Bulldog said:
I used to be true green, but I have had a bit of a falling out with Deere. They have sold me some equipment that could not handle the task at hand. I don't mind paying more, but it really irks me when the macchine won't do the job.

Just because something is green, doesn't mean that it can handle it. This was a mistake that I made.

I would think you can insert whatever color you see fit..:laughing:

It would be great to know for a fact what the future holds. Which manufacturer is going to be on top two decades from now? Who will have parts available for our twenty year old tractors? All I can do is hope I made the right choice but there is no guarantee in my mind.

Selecting the right equipment for the job is made easier with more experience. There are some really good brands out there to choose from today but you still have to pick the right fit for your own needs. Good luck with finding the answer.

Grandad4 · Jul 26, 2010

jenkinsph said:
art,

All the 806 tractors I have seen were diesels.

IH offered gas, diesel and LP versions of the 806.

nwngunner · Jul 26, 2010

My 806 is a fantastic tractor. Super strong engine for being gas. I have the torque amp on it. It runs and goes great. My issue that i cant seem to resolve is it wont turn when its cold outside. I have drained and changed all the fluids ect ect. No one can tell me what is wrong.

As for my oilver it has been a good tractor, i just burnt the clutch up in it this spring. I am going to rebuild the clutch in it. My bosses wanted me to look for new equipment and well it just doesnt look like its feasiable at this time. The oilver has good power, but i am going to do an overhaul on it when i pull the engine. Going to put all new seals in it ect ect. It has some oil leaks and i figured when i have it apart do it right.

Both have fels, i think i am just going to look for an older backhoe and not worry about it. I have made it this long with out a 4wd tractor i can go with out one. I got my truck to pull me out if nothing else. Btw i am looking for a new fel for my 806, we bought it from a guy and i think he rolled the tractor or a tree came down on it. The loader is torqued out of square and the bucket wont sit flat on the ground. One end digs in. Need to replace the seals in the 806 loader as well. 50 some year old equipment stuff needs some tlc.

jenkinsph · Jul 26, 2010

nwngunner,

I would run a voltage check directly from the starter terminal to ground and compare that to the battery voltage (both measurements while cranking). Use a good meter that will read three digits (example 12.7) if there is much of a difference then one of the cables is bad or you have a loose or poor connection. You should be able to test this now to see if this is your problem.

jenkinsph · Jul 26, 2010

Grandad4 said:
IH offered gas, diesel and LP versions of the 806.

Correct and they had a big honking lp tank too.:laughing:

Grandad4 · Jul 26, 2010

nwgunner,

If it doesn't crank when cold, but runs OK once you get it started, well that sure sounds like an electrical problem, doesn't it? Could be anything from a weak battery to a weak starter, or any of the wiring/terminals in between. Any journeyman mechanic should be able to track down which specific part(s) are causing the problem. 806 is a classic workhorse of a tractor. If yours is otherwise in decent shape, it would be a darn shame to see it get put out to pasture over what should be a pretty straightforward repair. Best of luck with getting it fixed.

nwngunner · Jul 27, 2010

Nah guys i dont mean it wont crank. You can sit there and turn the steering wheel and the front tires wont move. My 806 looks like **** but it will work is *** off. It will go out and pull a big baler all day and never miss a lick. My oliver will start to get hot and vaper lock after about 4 hours of constant load in 90+ temps.

I am hoping to fix the oliver here shortly and use it in the winter as i have better tires and chains for it. Planning on getting the rears filled with fluid this winter or making some weights. Then once this winter rolls around, now that my shop is heated the 806 is going in the body is comming off and getting sand blasted. New bolts and some paint. Going to look to see what is screwed up with my loader as well. Mabey take it apart and repair the rams in it. Also this winter have to build my self a new bucket. Needs to fit both the 806 and the oliver.

As for the no steering issue with the 806, i have replaced all the filters, and all the fluids. The fluids arnt that old, just replaced them when we rebuilt the pto. I like the 806 as it has wide truck tires on the front. Dont tear the fields up no where near as bad as those ridge tires on my oliver.

Like i said oilver just needs a little tlc, new engine seals and a clutch. Figure out why my 3point wont lift. I have been told up under the seat i hvae a snap ring broke. I hope that is all it is. I will find out onces i start tearing in to it.