Reminder - Cost of Ownership of Gas vs Diesel

[Haoleguy]

I know that we keep rediscussing the gas vs diesel vehicle costs from time to time so just wanted to add the recent 2013 Univ of Michigan report for reference ....... Diesel vehicles save owners thousands | University of Michigan News .......Gary

 

[Garandman]

 

[Haoleguy]

Here's more of the details ..... http://www.umtri.umich.edu/sites/default/files/UMTRI.TCO_.Final_.Report.06.24.13.Final_.pdf .....Gary

 

[Haoleguy]

Garandman - I had not idea that the Cruze came in diesel. Nice looking car.....Congrats!

 

[Wolfy]

That may hold true for cars, but today's truck diesels are unreliable and expensive to run. Around me, diesel costs 50 cents more at the pump than gasoline. Also, oil changes are 2-3 times more expensive. Many people buy diesels to get bragging rights.

 

[dodge man]

I own a diesel truck, I just looked up the price of the extra 5 quarts of oil it takes over a gas power vehicle. Amsoil, which is about the most expensive oil I could find would be another $40 for that 5 quarts. This is assuming 7 quarts for a gas vehicle vs 12 quarts for my Cummins. My Cummins also says it can go 15,000 miles between oil changes when most gas vehicles say 7,500 miles and just think of all the money I save on spark plugs! Sorry, its one of my pet peeves is when I read about how expensive an oil change is for a diesel, its a valid point but I'm guessing in overall cost of ownership the oil change cost is a non issue.

I've owned several 1/2 ton gas trucks, use several gas trucks at work, and own a 3/4 ton diesel. In my opinion the cost of ownership between a 3/4 ton diesel and gas truck is a wash. That's just a gut reaction on my part, no real world numbers. I think parts for a 3/4 ton are somewhat higher, but that has nothing to do when comparing gas and diesel. \

I'd think the above study would put this issue to bed but people will continue to argue about it.

 

[buickanddeere]

Lets not forget diesel fuel filters, gelled diesel fuel and transmission oil filters. How about non warranty emission system work just past the magic 100,000 miles mark. As far as longevity, a gasser going 300,000 miles is a common event. gas or diesel at 300,000 miles the frame and body will be rusted through with salt anyways. Last time I checked diesel cost more than gasoline at the pumps.

 

[RollingsFarms]

You couldn't give me any of the current diesel trucks with all that emissions junk on them that can fail at the drop of a hat and leave you with thousands in repair bills because the dealer chose to void your warranty because they'd claim "bad fuel" was the cause.

 

[dodge man]

Last I knew gas trucks had fuel filters, transmission filters also. Gas vehicles also have emissions systems that fail. I replaced an EGR valve on the wife's car about 4 years ago.

I can't say I know but a couple of people that own newer diesel trucks and they don't have problems yet, but I do agree, it can be a problem but I do think they are getting better.

Keep this in mind, this is the future of diesel engines, like it or hate it. It the same for everybody, tractors, light trucks, big rigs, heavy equipment. We can whine about it or adapt. This is just like the late 70's and early 80's with gas vehicles, people whined and ***** about the emissions stuff but I don't read anybody complaining about it now on gas vehicles.

 

[RollingsFarms]

Last I knew gas trucks had fuel filters, transmission filters also. Gas vehicles also have emissions systems that fail. I replaced an EGR valve on the wife's car about 4 years ago. I can't say I know but a couple of people that own newer diesel trucks and they don't have problems yet, but I do agree, it can be a problem but I do think they are getting better. Keep this in mind, this is the future of diesel engines, like it or hate it. It the same for everybody, tractors, light trucks, big rigs, heavy equipment. We can whine about it or adapt. This is just like the late 70's and early 80's with gas vehicles, people whined and ***** about the emissions stuff but I don't read anybody complaining about it now on gas vehicles.

True but they still have a long way to go to convince me to but a current diesel. Another problem with diesels is not many people can work on them that actually know what they're doing. Most places throw parts at the wall and hope they stick when it comes to diesels.

 

[Wolfy]

I do not want to sound like a diesel hater but... a 7.3PSD holds 14-15 quarts. The filter is about 4 times bigger than a V-8 filter, and probably 2-3 times $. Not many oil filters can go 15,000 miles. That's a few dollars. A gasoline fuel filter does not need to be changed as often as a diesel fuel filter. Spark plugs on modern engines do not need to be changed very often either. A diesel will often wear out batteries more often, and there are usually two. RollingsFarms also has an excellent point. And if diesels are so great, why do I always see them for sale at a 10-1 ratio to a gas engine? I think enough people will get fed up with this and reliability will have to return.

 

[dodge man]

I agree with a lot of the points, which is why I plan on hanging on to me 2004 Cummins a little longer. I didn't write the article either. You can look at the results a couple of different ways. A point someone hasn't brought up is they appear to just be carrying the cost of ownership out to 5 years or less, which is the trouble free years for most vehicles, gas or diesel. What is the cost diesel vs gas going out to a longer period of time or say 200,000 miles? The article doesn't address that. This article also appears to be about cars, but I'm not sure it says either way.

I still say for every fault of a diesel, there is a counterpoint for it with a strength. I would still bet depending on how the vehicle is used its a wash on long term cost.

 

[dodge man]

I agree with a lot of the points, which is why I plan on hanging on to me 2004 Cummins a little longer. I didn't write the article either. You can look at the results a couple of different ways. A point someone hasn't brought up is they appear to just be carrying the cost of ownership out to 5 years or less, which is the trouble free years for most vehicles, gas or diesel. What is the cost diesel vs gas going out to a longer period of time or say 200,000 miles? The article doesn't address that. This article also appears to be about cars, but I'm not sure it says either way.

I still say for every fault of a diesel, there is a counterpoint for it with a strength. I would still bet depending on how the vehicle is used its a wash on long term cost.

 

[RollingsFarms]

With the newer diesels many experts are recommending you add on a coolant filter. I know of one fella that will "bullet proof" any diesel you bring him at a cost of $7900 and he gives a lifetime warranty with that. I could get away with that here in South Carolina since we don't have emission inspections anymore but most people can't do that. That's still tough to swallow buying a $40,000-$60,000 truck and have to spend an extra $8k to make it reliable.

I'm currently buying all the older tractors I can get my hands on to replace my aging fleet of tractors because the new stuff just scares me and plus I really like the older iron, I can work on it. There's a farmer near me that had a john Deere 2240 with 23000 hours on its third rebuild. Yeah you heard right, 23000 hours.

 

[Haoleguy]

Four 3/4 ton trucks are in this study and only the Ford Gas came out as lower cost to own in large part because of the Ford diesel reputation still dogs the resale value. Otherwise Chevy, GMC, & Ram diesels came out ahead in cost of ownership over their gas counterparts.......Gary

 

[buickanddeere]

The good old days of cheap diesel fuel and the Cummins 6BT and ISB vs gassers with carburetors are long gone.
Gassers have become a rather simple engine with just direct injection, camshaft phase changing, a couple of cat converters and some o2 sensors making up the entire emissions system.

 

[3930dave]

They all take maintenance.

Gassers around here are getting high-mileage enough that I'm seeing cam-phasers being changed out down at my buddy's shop. For a mechanic, Simple Enough. Cheap Fix ? No, as the part alone is spendy.

If you have one, or are looking at buying one used, research about Fuel Dilution in Oil, with DI gas motors. It can be an issue, esp. with the way some people stretch out, or just neglect, oil changes. Good quality diesel oil has been designed for a long time to accomodate a certain % of fuel dilution - this is a relatively new issue for modern gas motor oils. Go back far enough (carburator era), and fuel dilution was a big issue - part of the reason FI gas engines lasted longer was getting fuel dilution in the oil under control. And, that was before gasoline became ethanol contaminated.

TDI is the only long life car diesel on the road here (meaning - the newer offerings like Cruze haven't been around long). Once EGR came into play on TDIs, having to decarbon the intake after lots of miles became routine. Possibly, that issue has been mitigated a bit in the latest gen. TDI.

1) Do the research.

2) Buy what you want.

3) Enjoy it.

The Ride Ain't Free, regardless of what you buy.

Rgds, D.

 

[Msamt]

"The Ride Ain't Free, regardless of what you buy."

Amen brother, we keep forgetting if it goes up and down, or round and round, its gonna wear an need fixing.

 

[ManofStihl]

I just hauled 10,000lbs of hay with my Duramax. I got 14 mpg. I use to haul about 8,000lbs of hay with my 3/4 ton gasser. 7mpg. I couldn't afford to haul hay with a gas truck!

 

[3930dave]

With the newer diesels many experts are recommending you add on a coolant filter.

Other than the filtering aspect, the nice thing about having a coolant filter in place is that it is an easy way to treat the system with SCA. Fleetguard for one supplies coolant filters with varying levels of cavitation corrosion additives built-in.

Interestingly, I've seen references to cavitation corrosion occurring in gas engines - apparently it's not just a diesel problem.

Rgds, D.