reliability question, historically

[rlee6]

I am considering Chinese 25-30hp 4wd with loader. It is about the same price ($8k-10k) as grey Japanese with loader and same hp, but the greys are 1000 hours and 20 years old. (I should say I am considering both.)

Chinese tractors must be of decent quality. I have not seen a Chinese tractor owner regretting the purchase. If I buy a Chinese tractor, I believe I will be satisfied for the first few years. But will I be happy 10-15 years down the road? How long have Chinese tractors been around?

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Wayne_Freeman]

Considering the popularity and wide distribution of these tractors I believe replacement parts will not be an issue. The life of the tractor I believe is directly proportional to how the operator uses or abuses his machine and how faithful he is with timely upkeep and repair. I live on the coast of South Carolina and am an avid boater. My particular brand of boat has lasted me 12 years and going while other owners have trashed the same boat in five years. The only difference is I know how the boats were handled on the water and in the garage! The Jinma should serve you well.

 

[Scozz]

Beware of the hours on that grey .... 1000 hrs for a grey tractor is highly unlikely.

 

[3RRL]

rlee6,
I think you'll be happy with a new Chinese tractor. They're getting better every year with more parts and dealer service than ever. The tractors themselves are well built and are a lot of tractor for the money. I've been very happy with mine, finding that it does everything another brand does with the added cost savings to boot.
As far as your statement "</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But will I be happy 10-15 years down the road?)</font>" that is a loaded question...
You can apply that to anything you buy...your car or whatever, even your house for that matter. You'll just have to decide if it keeps doing what you want just as with those items.

 

[zogman]

Do you know of any Kama dealers in SC?

 

[gunslinger101]

Everything breaks even us humans, depends how well you care for the machine and yourself for that matter. Nothing is 100% trouble free, but to answer your guestion, I have had less problem with a Jinma 354 than I have had with a Japanese made John Deere.
From what I have been told the Chinese tractors have been imported here for about 15 years, from then to now there has been vast improvement in the tractors made in China

 

[rlee6]

Thanks for all the replies. I still haven't decided yet which to buy. Let me ask you one more question. It was stated that the quality of Chinese tractors improved in the past. Do you mean 2006 Jinmas are better built than 2003 Jinmas? Or are you referring to swivel chairs, curved hood, etc? Thanks.

By the way, I don't know how reliable hour meters are on 20 year old greys, but I see 1000 +_ hour tractors. As you indicated, who knows if the cable was damaged until the tractor was bought and repaired here in the US? It's another risk of buying a grey.

 

[Tractors4u]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Beware of the hours on that grey .... 1000 hrs for a grey tractor is highly unlikely. )</font>

Why?

 

[slowrev]

Depends on where the grey came from. If it is one of the rebuilt/refurbished ones from SE Asia then it is a good possibility it would have far more actual hours on it than 1000. Those people tend to use stuff up and not just trade it in every few years for a new one.

Just my observations and opinion though. Your mileage may vary.

Ben

 

[Tractors4u]

I am well aware of the Vietnam refurbs and how they replace the hourmeters as part of their refurb. It has been my experience in the 10 years that I have with the grey markets is that 1000 hours or less is average for the greys. The smaller the tractor the less hours. The exception to this was a Hinomoto C144 that I had that showed 1200 hours which is a lot for a tractor that size from Japan. When you get into the larger models, they will have more hours. I have seen two with extremely low hours, pulled from the shipping container. One was a YM1700 with 126 hours and the other was a YM1610 with 6 hours. With both these tractor you could tell by looking that they were original hours. No these are not typical of grey markets, but if you are knowledgeable enough you can look at most tractors and determine whether that 600 hours showing on the meter is really 600 hours or 1600 because the 3 digit hour meter has already rolled over the 999 mark. The way the Japanese use their tractors, they just don't accumulate a lot of hours. Having under 1000 hours is not unusual and that is why I have a hard time understanding why these refurbished tractors need an engine overhaul unless they are starting out with dogs.

 

[LMTC]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Beware of the hours on that grey .... 1000 hrs for a grey tractor is highly unlikely. )</font>

Also beware the supposedly informational remarks from those without significant experience in the grey market. After 11+ years and literally THOUSANDS of tractors we have seen, I remain convinced that the vast majority have completely accurate hourmeters. Unsubstantiated skepticism does not count as experience.

The vietnamese recons are a totally different story.

 

[EFC]

In Japan tractors are traded in to the dealer for a couple reasons. #1 is taxes, the older the equipment the higher the taxes. #2 liquidation or crop changes. The average farm is less than a half an acre. Pretty hard to put a 1000 hours on a tractor on a farm that big especially when the only chore they are used for is tilling twice sometimes 3 times a year. The larger the tractor the higher hours since they are used on larger farms. The high hour greys (2000 +) are usually from dairies who use them everyday. I have seen some hour meter tampering but talking with the dealers in Japan they are looking for it also. They compare the hours on the tractor with the fuel records the farmer has to provide and maintain.

I have sold both grey and Chinese for years and we still repair both. I see fewer problems from an A to B+ grey than a new Chinese. With that said if you want to pick round bales up you could do it with an 18hp Chinese tractor and you couldn’t with an 18 hp grey.

0 hour Vietnam salvaged junk is just that and isn’t comparable to either Chinese or greys

Buck

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue"> will I be happy 10-15 years down the road? </font>

Hey Rlee,

These people are supposed to know the answers to the questions like that:

http://www.certifiedpsychics.com/psychic/phone-psychic/psychic-hotline.html

Ask yourself this though: Do I want to start out with a Used/Rebuilt Tractor, or a Brand New Tractor, with a warranty.

Most of us that have gotten Chinese Tractors are very happy and would do it again. 10 to 15 years down the road, some of us think that the Chinese may be building most if not all of the tractors.

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[rlee6]

Thank you, EFC, for the explanation of meter hours on greys. I didn't know low hours are kind of norm for greys.

To be honest with Chinese tractor owners here, the large number of posts at Chinese tractor forums seeking repair advice, including head gaskets on low mileage tractors, scares me. I even saw one on front axle repair.

Are these indicative of high repair needs of the Chinese? I can think of crate tractors and importers as the major contributing factors since they place unchecked tractors in the hands of end users.

If JD and Kubota sold crate tractors directly to end users, do you think their repair needs would be comparable? I mean as high?

I would appreciate your comments.

 

[bluechip]

It is true that Chinese tractors do require more repair than major brands. Also most Chinese tractor owners do their own repairs and are much more apt to seek advice and post than owners of major brands, so I believe you see a disproportionate amount of major problems posted on Chinese tractors. No way to back this theory up with any type of scientific statistics, but it stands to reason. Final assembly by the importer (be it a dealer or individual) does play a part. most of the problems we see are from something that was not done right at the factory. I tell customers that they should expect some type of minor issue during the first 90 days, if it doesn't happen, they are very happy and if it does they are not dissapointed as they were expecting something. The basic designs are basically solid (with the possible exception of the front Differential on the 200 series Jinmas and a couple seals that could be improved ont the KAMAs etc). MOst of the problems are things like rolled O rings, under torqued bolts, missing snap ring, etc. sometimes these can be major effort to fix, which is why I recommend buying assembled and tested rather than crate. The 2 cylinder engines do seem to occasionally pop a head gasket. could be not retorqing during the 50 hour service and the design of the 2 cylinder head. As it has been said here often, who you buy from has as much to do with satisfaction as whay you buy.