I watch this discussion group because I am purchashing a new tractor, I currently use a 20hp 4*4 yanmar. It makes a good skidder, back the draw bar over the log (if the bar goes over the log the tractor will pull it) and wrap chains over it, pick it up just a few inches, and increase the lift as you need to go over things. It gives you a great sense of accomplishment when you look back.