Tires Questions concerning fluid in tires.....

[PapaPerk]

I have some questions about putting fluid in my tractor tires. Dealer uses windshield washer fluid. What does everyone think of that? I know windshield fluid is methanol. But does it cause corrison and can it freeze...eventually???? Also how about calcium clohride? I know it rusts things out? I would like to buy wheel weights. But the dealer will do the fluid fill for me for free! What should I do? Oh by the way I have a Kubota 3830 with a LA723 loader. So needless to say I could use some weight in the rear. I generally have a grader blade on the back but it still is light when picking up a full scoop. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[penokee]

Papa

I recently sold my AC WD, which had calcium chloride in the tires - one rim rusted out around the valve stem, but then it was an old tractor.
Have Rim guard in rear tires of my L3130. Paid $300 for it. Claim is that it reduces or eliminates rust damage to tire rims, valves, gauges, pumps and equipment. Wont freeze down to -35 d. It weighs approx. 10.7 #/gal.
I feel some type of wheel ballast is a must, both for traction and as a counter weight when doing FEL work.

penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[JJT]

I have CaCl in my L3710, and had tubes put in the tires to prevent the rims from rusting. After several years with a very slow leak from a nail, I had the tube changed, the rim was rust free. I'm sticking with CaCl. I'd be surprised if the windshield washer fluid was cheaper than CaCl. My initial fill only cost me the price of the tubes, the dealer did the install for no charge.

 

[RalphVa]

My dealer put windshield wiper fluid into the rear tires of my JD 4010. The manual still specifies use of calcium chloride but recommends that the entire rim be covered up to the valve stem, with the stem at the top.

My neighbor had calcium chloride in her 1970-1973 JD 820 rear tires. She only this year had the tubeless stems removed and tubes put in.

Ralph

 

[RobS]

I had mine filled this fall with Rim Guard. It's beet juice, a byproduct of sugar beet production. It's non-toxic, non-corrosive, heavier than plain water and won't freeze. The guy who developed it is here in Michigan somewhere but his web-site leaves something to be desired. Best bet is to call your local ag tire distributor and ask about it. I had mine filled at a Farm Bureau Coop nearby /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[johndeere2210]

I have been using WW fluid for several years in various pieces of L&G equipment and CUTs. It has always worked well and the rust problem is minimal. I have demounted tires for repair that have never had any ballast that are in worse shape than those with WW fluid. Some one once suggested using RV antifreeze but I have never tried it.

 

[btolle]

Kansas State University says "If corrosion presents a problem, a water and antifreeze mixture can be used." I have not tried it yet but that is what I will use if I load my tires. The downside is anti freeze may damage grass if it leaks.

The Kansas State Univ. website also points out that "Liquid ballast has an effect on inflation pressure that is often overlooked. In most cases, the inflation pressure of a fluid filled tire is checked with the valve stem at the top in order to sample the air. However, the column of fluid in the tire adds pressure to the bottom of the tire. As shown in Figure 2, each foot of fluid height equals about ½ psi pressure. Since most tires have about 3 to 4 feet of fluid in them, this can easily make 2 psi difference. Thus, if 16 psi are needed at the bottom of the tire, the gauge at the top of the tire should read about 14 psi."

I think one of the reasons for using calcium chloride is that it is heavier than water. According to Dow Chemical a 28% solution of calcium chloride/water weighs 10.6 pounds. Water alone is about 8 pounds per gallon.

Firestone has some notes about calcium chloride.

Carver Equipment has a good page about tire ballasting.

I did notice that the Operator's Manual for my B7510 says to add ballast ONLY to the rear tires, not the front tires.

Bill Tolle

 

[DDT]

I used winter WW fliud in a JD 4400, never had a problem. It did the job and made cheap weight, at the time there was a sale on for .50 per gal. I used 26 gal per side. If I need weight on my new L5030 I will use it again. If your use it make sure it is winter WW fluid.

 

[keeney]

RE: <font color="green"> "I think one of the reasons for using calcium chloride is that it is heavier than water. According to Dow Chemical a 28% solution of calcium chloride/water weighs 10.6 pounds. Water alone is about 8 pounds per gallon. " </font>

WW Fluid is even lighter, still.

My JD Operator's guide for my 4100 says:

"A solution of water and calcium chloride provide safe, economical ballast. Used properly, it will not damage tires, tubes, or rims."

It then goes on:

"Note: Use of alcohol as ballast is not recommended. Calcium chloride solution is heavier and more economical."

- Rick

 

[Syncro]

Bill- Thanks for posting this, I never connected with tire pressure having to be adjusted lower to compensate for ballast. Interesting Firestone website too, and a good site for inflation charts. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

As for Calcium, we've been using it since I was a kid, but I also have to admit there were corrosion issues. For my new 'toys' I've switched to WW fluid, yup its a little lighter, but the difference isn't too great, besides these days I don't make my living with the tractor, so corrosion proof is more important to me now tnan a few extra pounds of ballast. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[onegreenday]

Firestone Technical<<<<Fill the tube with ballast to slightly above valve level with valve at the 12 o’clock position. This assures that no air contacts the valve during wheel rotation. Corrosion can be minimized or prevented if the valve and housing are completely submerged at all times.>>>>>

Considering that ballast is used to increase weight/stability of the tractor and to prevent tipping/rolls; I would think that any fluids in the tires above the center of the wheel would "raise the center of gravity" of the tractor and "increase" the possibility of a rollover.

The fluid in the downhill wheels (going across the hill slope) above the wheel centerline would act as a lever on the tractor and the fluid in the uphill tires (above the wheel center) would seek to roll towards the downhill side (gravity) and increase the pressure towards a downhill roll.

But I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> Considering that ballast is used to increase weight/stability of the tractor and to prevent tipping/rolls; I would think that any fluids in the tires above the center of the wheel would "raise the center of gravity" of the tractor and "increase" the possibility of a rollover.
</font>

Nope, just is not so. Would only work this way if the tractor was upside down and the wheels were on the top... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Reason is that any weight added to the tractor changes the center of gravity of the whole mass of the tractor, which now includes the added weight.

Almost without question one can state that the center of gravity of the tractor wil always be above the wheel centers.

The center of gravity of a balanced wheel is in the center of the wheel. When liquid is added to the wheel, since the tire is not completely filled, the center of gravity of the wheel is actually lowered.

The net affect is that adding fluid to tires essentially lowers the tractor's overall center of gravity a shade, and in no way can raise it.

So the net result is that filling tires with liquid or even totally filling them with a solid like foam fill, will always (at least in a practical world) result in a lower center of gravity and more stability.

Once issue that could be a concern though is sloshing in tires that are only half filled. At least in theory, if a condition would arise that caused the liquid in the half-filled tire to slosh to the top of the tire, then at this moment in time, the liquid being high in the tire, rather than on the bottom would cause a net increase in the tractor's center of gravity, and decrease stability, to some degree...

That's the way I see it working anyway... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Westonium]

Just a random thought, but would used veggie oil of some kind work ok? I mean... it won't freeze, corrode, etc and the stuff has to be pretty heavy.

Too heavy? It would get pretty thick in the cold perhaps?

Too thick?

I am really glad I found this thread. I have been trying to figure out if I am going to fill or not fill. I don't think I will go with the calcium chloride if I do.

 

[btolle]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Just a random thought, but would used veggie oil of some kind work ok? I mean... it won't freeze, corrode, etc and the stuff has to be pretty heavy. )</font>

One problem would be that it would be awfully messy. It would not flow as freely as water based mixtures which may or may not be a problem.

I would also be concerned about what effect it might have on the rubber in the tires. And if it is used you don't know what kind of "stuff" is in it from whatever it was used to cook.

I'd rather clean up anti-freeze than vegetable oil.

Bill Tolle

 

[California]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( would used veggie oil of some kind work ok? I mean... it won't freeze, corrode, etc and the stuff has to be pretty heavy. )</font>

Heavy, but lighter than water. Keep in mind it will float to the top if you pour it into water.

 

[woodchuckie]

The Kubota dealer here in Tuscaloosa puts one gal. of regular anti-freeze in each tire and fills with water. I couldn't operate my
L 2800 without the extra weight.

 

[Kaliburz]

Well, the old main stay was calcium chloride in tires (tubes installed) for decades. That new stuff made out of beets is expensive. JD dealer here wants about $3.00 a gallon and it's about the same weight as CaCl. I have tractors that have had CaCl in them since they were bought (and my father bought it them new in the mid 60's).

Rusting of the rim only becomes an issue long down the road. filling to cover the rim (about 70+%) reduces the rusting factor. In order to "rust", one needs "oxygen", so if there is liquid all the way up over the rim..... The I have yet to loose a rim due to rusting (fingers crossed). If one gets the leaking tube fixed (if tubed), it should last a long time. Putting in tubeless tires, fill till rim covered I say.

And the tractors I'm dealing w/ are 50+ HP and one handles a 3 bottom plow....

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif