PTO shaft stuck/jammed on tractor

[Keith_B]

Man, I am learning more than I really want to know about PTO shafts. I have located a twist release style PTO shaft on Ebay for $94 complete plus 20 for shipping. If I value my time at about 25 cents an hour it still might be cheaper to just replace the whole thing. Hate to see a piece of equipment with one small busted part turned to junk however.

I'd go with a different type of release. The push button quick disconnect is a tried and true system, and is very easy to use. I have that system on the rotary cutter I use, and on my PHD. You can push the button while guiding the yoke onto the PTO shaft or when you remove it from the shaft. The styles where you have to pull back or twist a ring to release are not as easy to use.

 

[RoyJackson]

Not much doubt that this is the "root cause" of my problem. I used the cutter/shaft combo for two years without trouble just as prepared by the dealer. It clearly needs to be a bit shorter though and the next PTO shaft will be.

That's an interesting comment. Apparently, you drove across a "V" shaped ditch which bottomed out the PTO shaft. Is this the first time you did that or drove across that ditch?

So, have you removed the jammed shaft yet?

 

[IslandTractor]

That's an interesting comment. Apparently, you drove across a "V" shaped ditch which bottomed out the PTO shaft. Is this the first time you did that or drove across that ditch?

So, have you removed the jammed shaft yet?

Well, I got the shaft off and did so without needing to destroy it. In fact, the simple removal of the PTO shield allowed me access to get a small crowbar (10" Wonderbar actually...flat style with 90 degree bend). I found that with moderate pressure I could move the coupler back towards the normal position (about 1.5 inches back) until the ball bearings were in the appropriate channel. At that point I was able to remove the shaft manually as designed. On inspection, there are 4 balls (only one was evident in the photo I posted) and all were jammed and had deformed the retainer plate a bit. I found that I can rotate the retainer ring so that the balls do not meet the deformed area and can operate the coupler normally. It also looks like by removing a retainer ring I can remove the deformed plate which is a very simple 3x3 inch approx 10 gauge plate with a 1 3/8 inch cut out. I haven't done that yet but might do so just to heat and bend the deformed areas back to normal.

I cut 2 inches off each end of the PTO shaft after measuring the operational distance from tractor PTO to gear box PTO and that should leave at least 7-8 inches still as an overlap. The shaft did not look like it had been cut before so the original dealer must not have bothered to optomize the shaft length for my tractor. I had never thought to ask that question of the dealer and don't know what the industry standard is for that sort of fine tuning. I know that I never bothered measuring even though I routinely greased and checked the PTO.

Regarding how the PTO shaft got jammed and to answer Roy's question about whether I'd ever driven across the ditch before, the answer is no. I use my tractor mostly to maintain preservation land that surrounds my home essentially to keep a Colonial era farm pasture from being completely swallowed by Mother Nature and invasive species. I can see easily where I am going and there are no big ditches. Last week I was asked to lend a hand at a nearby farm that has been bought by the perservation trust. They have about 7-8 acres of former fields that are pretty badly overgrown after 5-6 years of neglect. As I was mowing in 4 foot grass and brush with the loader feeling the way, I drove across a depression that wasn't really a ditch but was enough of a depression that I think the mower "V'd" with the tractor and shoved the PTO shaft forward jamming it. It wasn't enough to stop or stall the tractor but I definitely remembered the spot and saw the scalp marks. Everything still worked fine and I continued to cut. It wasn't until I came home and tried to take off the cutter PTO shaft that I realized I had a problem.

So, bottom line: I did not need to disassemble the coupler or universal joint. The only damage to the shaft is the retainer ring for the spring loaded retainer balls. I think I can either repair that with a little heat and hammer. The grease zirk for the universal joint did get knocked off somehow and given that it is an Italian PTO shaft I presume I'll need to track down metrick zirks. Luckily I had just greased it before the mowing job so it is OK for now.

I now know more about PTO shafts than I'd ever imagined would be necessary and must thank all of you who gave advice and explained the various options. I hope this thread is useful to the next poor slob who manages to jam their PTO shaft.

 

[RoyJackson]

Another happy conclusion for a TBNer!!!!

Good job!!!

However, I do think we can milk this thread for at least another page...

 

[IslandTractor]

However, I do think we can milk this thread for at least another page...

Well, know that you're challenging us....how many folks actually measure their PTOs and make the 1-3 inch adjustments by cutting each side and cutting the PTO safety shield etc. I must admit that I assumed the dealer had done this already (I bought the cutter and tractor together). I won't make that assumption again but wonder what the industry standard is and how many TBNers routinely optomize PTO shaft length when they get a new implement.

 

[RoyJackson]

Well, know that you're challenging us....how many folks actually measure their PTOs and make the 1-3 inch adjustments by cutting each side and cutting the PTO safety shield etc. I must admit that I assumed the dealer had done this already (I bought the cutter and tractor together). I won't make that assumption again but wonder what the industry standard is and how many TBNers routinely optomize PTO shaft length when they get a new implement.

I'll be honest...I haven't touched the two PTO shafts I have other then grease and such.
Since I added a Pat's Easy Change, I'm actually more concerned they may be too short (not enough overlap) then too long.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Another happy conclusion for a TBNer!!!!

Good job!!!

However, I do think we can milk this thread for at least another page...

Just ONE page? Why, we haven't even touched upon what COLOR the tractor is, what brand of mower, if the ROPS had been altered causing PTO issues, why loaded tires would or wouldn't have made a difference, insurance liability for future users of the mower, what sort of fuel can was used to fuel the tractor before (and after) the shaft crisis, if removing the PTO shield even for a simple repair will void the warranty, OR.... was it the DEALERS FAULT or the manufacturers fault?

We could milk 30 pages out of this, no sweat!

 

[IslandTractor]

Just ONE page? Why, we haven't even touched upon what COLOR the tractor is, what brand of mower, if the ROPS had been altered causing PTO issues, why loaded tires would or wouldn't have made a difference, insurance liability for future users of the mower, what sort of fuel can was used to fuel the tractor before (and after) the shaft crisis, if removing the PTO shield even for a simple repair will void the warranty, OR.... was it the DEALERS FAULT or the manufacturers fault?

We could milk 30 pages out of this, no sweat!

It appears that FWJ is still fiesty after his latest MF vs Mahindra post.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

It appears that FWJ is still fiesty after his latest MF vs Mahindra post.

You wanna make somethin' of it ? I'm ready to go a couple rounds! I may be the only person I know that DELIBERATELY gets up on the wrong side of the bed.

That's more of a 27 HP vs, 34 hp debate than brand vs. brand as I see it. Seems I stepped on a toe or 3 though.

 

[Cacinok]

islandtractor, good to hear it was a relatively easy fix. i for one was not aware of the need to shorten pto shafts. thanks for educating me w/ your experience.

lol @ farmw/junk.

 

[bondo]

Yup, been there myself. Cut the PTO shaft to fit the BMC and worked just dandy. Then when the BMC was down for a while I hooked it up to the Oliver and when I would make a hard turn it was to short! Also just jammed the PTO from the haybine on the Oliver, had one of those darn push button and pull ring back release thing-of-a-ma-jig do-dads on it, which is no longer there, and it took me one **** of a time to get it off. It now has the quick release coupler on and so far works just fine. I will say I just didn't have the paitence to take it apart, used the torch and trusty hammer to remove mine

Oh, and another 3 pages easily!

Bondo©

 

[RoyJackson]

islandtractor, good to hear it was a relatively easy fix. i for one was not aware of the need to shorten pto shafts. thanks for educating me w/ your experience.

There should be a description on how to do it in your cutter manual.

 

[IslandTractor]

There should be a description on how to do it in your cutter manual.

Roy is right but I suspect that most folks don't do it. For example, I bought my Bush Hog with my original tractor purchase from the dealer. In fact the cutter was mounted on the tractor when I first saw it. I just assumed that whatever adjustments were needed had already been made. Turned out for me that for 99% of what I did the unmodified PTO shaft was OK but when I put the rear wheels in a depression/ditch while mowing I hit that 1% where it was too long.

It only took about 10 minutes to modify the PTO shaft. I did not even take the male shaft off the cutter, just used a sawzall to lop off 2 inches from that end and did the same for the female/tractor side and the shields in my shop. A little filing, cleaning and greasing later I reassembled it.

 

[texbaylea]

Roy is right but I suspect that most folks don't do it. For example, I bought my Bush Hog with my original tractor purchase from the dealer. In fact the cutter was mounted on the tractor when I first saw it. I just assumed that whatever adjustments were needed had already been made. Turned out for me that for 99% of what I did the unmodified PTO shaft was OK but when I put the rear wheels in a depression/ditch while mowing I hit that 1% where it was too long.

It only took about 10 minutes to modify the PTO shaft. I did not even take the male shaft off the cutter, just used a sawzall to lop off 2 inches from that end and did the same for the female/tractor side and the shields in my shop. A little filing, cleaning and greasing later I reassembled it.

I just purchased a Caroni TM1900BSC flail mower to use with my Kubota and remembering this thread I am putting a critical eye on the shaft. As delivered the shaft has about 4" free travel and I have been keeping an eye on it as I start using the mower. I have ordered a hydraulic side shift kit for the mower but it will probably be a month before I get that.

I have decided to hold off until I get the shift kit installed as it potentially could result in a too short shaft at maximum shift if I start cutting now.

I will post more about this but in another thread but I am glad that I read this thread.

Vernon

 

[Sandlot]

Whe I bought my Gearmore posthole digger, my dealer warned me that the supplied pto shaft maybe to long. Soooo, I installed the digger and pto shaft. I had marked the pto shaft at the shortest point. With the digger in the transport position, my mark was showing about 4 inches of extension. I then engaged the pto and lowered to dig, as the shaft went horizonal, My marks met, no more slack. The dealer was right, so I pulled the pto shaft off the digger and cut 1 1/2 inch off. This gives me plenty of room without bottoming out the pto.

 

[3RRL]

What a great thread and a happy ending at that. lol... I'll be the first to add to the next 3 pages...
BTW, Napa or Harbor Freight carries an assortment of both metric and SAE zerk fitting. You should now take the u-joints apart just to see what that's like.

 

[IslandTractor]

You should now take the u-joints apart just to see what that's like.

And you'll be right there to help me catch all the bits and put it back together???? If so then I'm game and will supply the beer. You bring the tweezers.

 

[Kendrick]

LOL yay for island... now I just got to pester my dealer to make sure I never have to wory about that... :/ i got lots of uneaven

 

[Bartcephus]

Well, I wished I'd read this thread and adjusted the PTO shaft length. I bought a used PHD/Auger. Just assumed that since it had been used that the shaft would be the right length for "any" tractor. I mean, CAT 1 is a standard is it not? Well, apparently the PTO shaft varies in relation to the side and top links in all three directions (dimentions) from make and model to make and model of tractor.

This last weekend, I attempted to pull the PHD coupler from the PTO shaft. I have ended up disassymbling the u-joint using a small gear puller that I had in my truck tool box. (This pushed through the end caps so I knew I ruined the cross. Of course the c-clips were rusted and one broke in place and I had to work the cross out through only one side. First I tried pry bars, but with the tight quarters, I couldn't get real room in there to work them. Then I tried hooking up my 9000 lbs. winch on my truck to pull on the PHD coupler but no luck. I've hammered, squirted WD-40, heated with a propane torch and even tried the small gear puller. Folks, this thing is on there. I'm going to get a bigger gear puller, some PB Rust Blaster and bringing my slide hammer when I go back out there. If that don't work.... I guess its gonna be a grinder with a cut-off wheel? Of course, I tried all this with the PTO shield in place, held up by a bungee cord. But it still got in the way. I'm gonna have to find some good anti seize greese or something for the future.

Any recomendations on anti-seize? I'll report what worked to get this thing off. Hopefully it will only cost a new coupler and not a Tractor repair bill when I get so frustrated to chain the remaining coupler to a tree and throw the tractor in Low range 1st gear and make a crawl for it, hoping not to find my PTO shaft pulled out of the back of my tractor. What a stinking pain that would be....

Regards

 

[Dead Horse]

I had the same problem, only the stuck end was on an implement.

I used a come-along to put pulling tension on the u coupler while tapping on the side of the darn thing with a ballpeen hammer. The constant pulling tension was what did the trick. I tried everything else mentioned, heat, tiger piss, beating on it, crow bar........... nothing worked.