PTO shaft stuck/jammed on tractor

[civesnedfield]

If you do go the route of taking the U joint out, grease the U joint before disassembly. Not alot of grease just a small amount. What this will do is keep the needle bearings where they should be when you remove the cap from the end of the U-joint to get it out of the yolk. If the cap is dry when you remove it the needle bearings will most likley be littered all over the ground.

 

[IslandTractor]

If you do go the route of taking the U joint out, grease the U joint before disassembly. Not alot of grease just a small amount. What this will do is keep the needle bearings where they should be when you remove the cap from the end of the U-joint to get it out of the yolk. If the cap is dry when you remove it the needle bearings will most likley be littered all over the ground.

great tip. I keep the U joint greased regularly but I'll give it a few extra shots just to make sure.

 

[dbdartman]

great tip. I keep the U joint greased regularly but I'll give it a few extra shots just to make sure.

U-joints, I have much experience with. Tractors, not much at all. That said, even if you grease the U-joint, there is a very good possibility you may have one or more dry cups. Grease, like electricity & water, will follow the path of least resistance.

For removing & installing U-joints, I use a large C-clamp & some sockets. Push one cap with a socket smaller than the cap's OD & have a socket larger than the cap's OD to push the other side cap into. Once the cap is about 60-70% of the way through the yoke strap, you should be able to remove it by hand. (Back in my "Neanderthal" days, I changed U-joints with a 3lb hammer & two short 4X4's ) Very good suggestion above to check out automotive pages on changing U-joints! Only other suggestion I think I can make is to have a large baking pan, cookie sheet, or some other such thing to put below your work area so that IF you pop a joint cap off & needle bearings fly to the ground, you have a fighting chance at gathering them all back up.

Oh, if you do disassemble that U-joint, pull each cap off & use your finger to smear some grease in them! This will assure the joint is FULLY greased, plus it will also hold the needles in place as you gather them back up & reinstall them, should they fly out.

Good luck!

 

[IslandTractor]

These posts on taking apart a U joint are very useful. I hope others find this thread in the future.

I am still being optomistic and hoping I can pry the PTO shaft coupler off once I remove the PTO shield but taking apart the U joint will be the next step.

Thanks guys.

 

[JerryG]

Good points about putting grease in the cups to keep the rollers in. I will add, wipe the grease off of your finger with your finger tip inside the cup not touching the rollers. That way you won't chance knocking the rollers over by pushing against them putting the grease in. And don't fill the cups full. If you do they don't like to go on. Like David said, use a large C-clamp if you have one. If you don't have a vise or like in this case you can't get it off the tractor that is the best thing to use. There is also less chance of damaging the cups using a C-clamp than when using a vise.

 

[zzvyb6]

Here's how I have fixed this condition in a slightly different situation (the stuck joint was on the other end of the drive shaft, not the tractor end). In fact it was nearly the same type of connector on my Kuhn hay rake. The gearbox end is exactly the same 6 spline end as the tractor's pto stub.

I put the shaft back together so that the rake was hooked back up. I did not attach any of the 3pt links. The shaft length was considerably longer than it would be if the machine were properly connected.

Then I drilled a 1/4" hold through the shaft such that the hole went through both sliding parts. I put a 1/4" bolt through the hole and drove the tractor away with an abrupt clutch engagement. The yoke pulled right off the gearbox end. This happened because the 6 spline shaft has grooves that are cut by a wheel and they taper up at the tractor or gearbox end. Any yoke going too far gets ramped up the splines and eventually gets jammed. All it took was a good hard yank to free it. The thing really wants to come off. The balls are spring loaded so they will roll right through the notch which normally retains them. The shaft runs just fine with the holes in there. I hope you all realize that the bolt had to come out.

Good as new.

 

[jbrumberg]

The tow strap and come-a-long suggestion is looking better and better . Jay

 

[IslandTractor]

The tow strap and come-a-long suggestion is looking better and better . Jay

No question one would want to try methods that don't involve disassembly of the yoke first and the tow strap/comealong is probably the safest of the "just yank it off" strategies. However, there is a chance that won't work so I'm glad folks are giving detail on how to proceed with disassembly. Hopefully my PTO will pop off instantly with my next manuver but it's nice to have these varioius strategies documented on the thread for when the simple manuvers don't work.

 

[hazmat]

Maybe you need to scare it straight. Print out the thread and show it to the PTO shaft - Tell it, if you don't come off right now, I'm going to start using the various methods of torture suggested by tbn.

I seem to remember that my high school imported local prisoners to "scare us straight"...

 

[Highbeam]

I agree with an earlier poster that the yoke is still properly on the splines but the ball that normally sits in a recess to hold the yoke on the stub has been driven beyond that recess and the retainer is now pinned forward by the ball that has been forced to ride on top of the spline. You can't pull the retainer back to release the ball because the retainer is held forward by the jammed up ball. The ball itself is a wedge. Even after the thing comes off I would worry that the ball and retainer are too deformed to function properly ever again. If you can cut that retainer and release the ball, the whole mess will come off. If you can use a gear puller, along with a few hammer taps, the yoke can force the ball to slide along the spline just far enough to fall back into its proper recess and then you can pass the retainer to the "release" position.

I would have a very hard time recommending pulling on the whole assembly with strap or chain. The PTO is not designed to be pulled, just to twist really hard.

Let us know how it comes off. Honestly, I would start by prying lightly between the tractor and the yoke with a bar while tapping on the yoke with a hammer. Rotating the yoke to be sure it comes off evenly.

 

[IslandTractor]

You can't pull the retainer back to release the ball because the retainer is held forward by the jammed up ball. The ball itself is a wedge. Even after the thing comes off I would worry that the ball and retainer are too deformed to function properly ever again. If you can cut that retainer and release the ball, the whole mess will come off.

This diagnosis and recommendation is exactly what a very experienced dealer recommended and had in fact done just recenty in his shop. Unfortunately, it is apparently not possible to replace the retainer alone and replacing half the shaft by ordering parts from Bush Hog is absurdly expensive ($250 or so). I most likely will just get another PTO shaft off Ebay for less than half the price Bush Hog wants for the replacement parts.

Still, I'll try to pry the retainer off first rather than cut it off. They suggested using a cold chisel to break the retainer and release the jammed ball.

 

[Keith_B]

Unfortunately, it is apparently not possible to replace the retainer alone and replacing half the shaft by ordering parts from Bush Hog is absurdly expensive ($250 or so). I most likely will just get another PTO shaft off Ebay for less than half the price Bush Hog wants for the replacement parts.

You won't need a new half shaft, just replace the quick disconnect yoke. Once you take out the u-joint, which is pretty straightforward, you can put a different yoke on it a lot cheaper than you can replace a shaft.

I'd opt for a yoke like this one, it has the push pin release: http://www.tractors-equipment.com/images/Series-3-QDY.gif

It looks like there are two suppliers on ebay, you mentioned ebay earlier, and this gives you an idea of what the price differential is in a quick disconnect yoke.

eBay Store – DN Equipment: Search results for quick disconnect yoke.

eBay Store – Ozark Auction Sales: Search results for quick disconnect yoke.

You can also find them at any farm store. The quick disconnect yoke will be a 1 3/8" 6 spline yoke, and they can measure it for you to tell you what series it is.

Take the u-joint to an autoparts store and they should be able to match one up for you for less $$ than a farm supply store will charge.

Getting the u-joint out isn't tough, you do it just like a rear wheel drive u-joint on a driveshaft. There will be retaining clips for each of the four ends of the joint. Remove the clips and drive the joint out using a socket and hammer, or a smallish ball peen hammer. After you drive an end out you remove the bearing cups, and free the u-joint. Then repeat the process for the other two ends of the u-joint. Assembly goes faster, as you put the joint in, and then slide the bearing cups onto the joint and secure with new clips that come with the joint.

Check out page 30 of this pdf file (manual p 27), it will give you a good idea of what the basic assembly of a PTO shaft is. Keep in mind that any of those parts can be replaced without replacing the entire shaft: http://www.buhler.com/manuals/rotary-cutter-2006.pdf The only reason to replace an entire shaft is when it is too short for the application, or the shaft itself becomes twisted and the cost of repair is not feasible.

 

[IslandTractor]

You won't need a new half shaft, just replace the quick disconnect yoke. .

Thanks. That is very helpful. I did not know you could buy parts of the PTO assembly like the quick resease yoke separately. However, how do I determine which "series" my PTO is? Seems there are different sizes and styles. I can understand the simple different choice in push pin or rotating collar or spring loaded retainer but how do I determine which size or series will be compatable with the remainder of my current PTO shaft?

Also, and again this is a naive question, why do I need a new universal joint? Couldn't I just take out and then reinstall the existing one?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks. That is very helpful. I did not know you could buy parts of the PTO assembly like the quick resease yoke separately. However, how do I determine which "series" my PTO is? Seems there are different sizes and styles. I can understand the simple different choice in push pin or rotating collar or spring loaded retainer but how do I determine which size or series will be compatable with the remainder of my current PTO shaft?

Also, and again this is a naive question, why do I need a new universal joint? Couldn't I just take out and then reinstall the existing one?

Among others, Tractor Supply USUALLY has a decent selection of pto shaft parts. The yoke should be available. Take the old one along for comparison. Get the heaviest available as assurance you have the series issue covered.

I've had mixed luck re-using old u-joints. You PROBABLY can re-use the old one. MAYBE it will fail in short order. The chance you take with doing damage to the shaft in the event of a u-joint failure isn't worth the cost of a new one in most cases. They aren't THAT expensive.

All things being equal, I've usually came out cheaper in the long run, especially when considering down time, by replacing the entire pto shaft, rather than replacing a few major components. This applies more so to light to medium duty series shafts. Bigger HEAVY DUTY shafts are expensive. They almost always get rebuilt or repaired. "Generic" shafts are available at TSC or any good farm supply store in addition to most tractor dealers. Even NAPA can order new pto shaft assemblies. (I trust the parts guys at NAPA with finding correct PTO shaft components more than the "average joe" at TSC. Generally speaking, they're better at descifering parts books and/or determining part #'s)

 

[IslandTractor]

Man, I am learning more than I really want to know about PTO shafts. I have located a twist release style PTO shaft on Ebay for $94 complete plus 20 for shipping. If I value my time at about 25 cents an hour it still might be cheaper to just replace the whole thing. Hate to see a piece of equipment with one small busted part turned to junk however.

 

[dbdartman]

It sounds like you're about 99% sure you're replacing the whole shaft.

Here's what I'd suggest: Replace the whole shaft. This way you minimize down-time & you're reasonably assured the shaft won't continue to cause trouble/down-time. Then you want to disassemble the old shaft. Take it ALL apart, but be careful, maybe take digi-pics to document, "bag & tag" all parts. Over time, as money & time permit, buy a new (or used?) coupling, new U-joints, & any other necessary wear parts, & rebuild the old shaft, but before you do, practice your reinstall procedures using the old parts. When you're done, you can teach the newbie & you've learned something new! Don't think you'll want an extra shaft laying around? You could probably sell it for the cost of it's new parts, you get a free education, & someone else gets a rebuilt shaft ready to go. Otherwise, you have a rebuilt shaft on the shelf, ready to go.

 

[IslandTractor]

It sounds like you're about 99% sure you're replacing the whole shaft.

Here's what I'd suggest: Replace the whole shaft. This way you minimize down-time & you're reasonably assured the shaft won't continue to cause trouble/down-time. Then you want to disassemble the old shaft. Take it ALL apart, but be careful, maybe take digi-pics to document, "bag & tag" all parts. Over time, as money & time permit, buy a new (or used?) coupling, new U-joints, & any other necessary wear parts, & rebuild the old shaft, but before you do, practice your reinstall procedures using the old parts. When you're done, you can teach the newbie & you've learned something new!

I think this was a very diplomatic and kind way of telling me I need to enroll in a remedial tractor mechanics/maintenance course. You are correct. I've never had the delight of disassembling a U joint and probably should not go through life without that experience. Sounds like a fine rainy day project.

 

[Paddy]

Ok, I've read through all this thead. Have you just returned to bush hoging as is? Just stay out of that ditch! It could work itself loose. I can't see how it would hurt anything. Otherwise, small force tuging with gental taps.

 

[ronjhall]

I just saw this thread. Hope you get your PTO shaft off. Lots of good ideas.
Looking at the photo's posted in your first post. It looks like PTO shaft has been pushed all the way against tractor and is jammed on end of the the PTO splines. MY concerns are that PTO shaft is to long for your tractor/bush hog. Roy mentioned it in his first post. Make sure you have the correct length before using the Rotary Cutter again.

 

[IslandTractor]

Make sure you have the correct length before using the Rotary Cutter again.

Not much doubt that this is the "root cause" of my problem. I used the cutter/shaft combo for two years without trouble just as prepared by the dealer. It clearly needs to be a bit shorter though and the next PTO shaft will be.