PTO Grass Vacuum

[oldbones]

AgentBlue-
Thanks for the idea. I've been thinking about making a leaf blower to put on the old 17hp Simplicity garden tractor. My farm tractors are too large to use on the lawn. I only use it for spraying the lawn, now.
That "fan" would be about perfect. Gotta look around and see if I can find one. Second choice would be an impeller off of a snowblower, modify it, and mount it.

 

[SPYDERLK]

what part of you do you disagree with?

I guess you mean the hi tension forces conveying torque to small driven pulleys or sprockets or gears when doing speed increases. With V pulleys yould need to be careful with small sizes to prevent slippage. 2 stage as you mention. Neglecting inefficiency tho its still just a 2HP input at lo speed and converting to 2HP[-] output at hi speed.
larry

 

[Baby Grand]

I guess you mean the hi tension forces conveying torque to small driven pulleys or sprockets or gears when doing speed increases. With V pulleys yould need to be careful with small sizes to prevent slippage. 2 stage as you mention. Neglecting inefficiency tho its still just a 2HP input at lo speed and converting to 2HP[-] output at hi speed.
larry

Yup. Torque converts. HP doesn't.

 

[Agent Blue]

Oldbones;
I am just trying to make use of the resources I have. That is why they put the pto shaft in the back and middle position. I like the factory units they came up with but who has 3k to put in a couple mechanical items connected by steel tubing ? If I can get the RPM needed it should work well. I just raked the large hosta bed and my back reminded me to get this vacuum operational. Besides..... I love visiting the scrap yard to see what project is there in pieces waiting to be brought to life. ( stump grinder on the horizon )

By the way I will be passing through your state in a couple weeks enroute to Kansas for the Summer Nationals Drag Racing Series. Lots of fast iron and unbelievable engineering.

 

[oldbones]

Agent Blue-
Yeah, I'm notorious about keeping stuff, thinking "I could use that somewhere, some day, for something". Example, the 4x8 cylinder I used- I took it off an old 3 bottom plow I have. In that instance, the $30 I paid for the 2x8 would have been cheaper than the repairs/rebuilding, but.......... Usually pays off, but got to keep "stuff" packed away in sheds for neatness. Can't stand junk laying all over.
Most attachments I've made are from 80% "recycled" iron. I can usually make stuff for 1/2 price or less, and enjoy building it.

 

[Agent Blue]

Tested today. Creates quite a wind storm at 3375 rpm. On to building a platform for containers and a mmm transition to 8" flex pipe. No extra engine to maintain.

 

[boggen]

*looks jealous* :thumbsup:

 

[jenkinsph]

Tested today. Creates quite a wind storm at 3375 rpm. On to building a platform for containers and a mmm transition to 8" flex pipe. No extra engine to maintain.

Looks good:thumbsup:

I might consider using two belts on the low speed side since the torque is higher there and you are already good to go with that.

Can you take a picture from the front side showing the impeller you are using?

 

[Agent Blue]

I am using Gates hi - torque belts and I thought about double belting the drive side but here is the problem. The PTO engages the mid and rear pto at the same time via an elecrtic clutch. To swing the heavy impeller into action I didn't want to put too much strain on the rear pto shaft assembly. I hear other JD models have problems as it appears the internal gearing isn't as heavy duty as one thinks. The minor slipage on start up might not be a bad thing. Also as far as pine needles... they are pretty lite in weight and should have no problem shooting through the flex pipes.
The fan is pretty aggresive measures 12.5 inches in diameter, 4" wide paddles , four of them, tapered in the center to 2".
I was not expecting this to work as well as it does. I may have to demo it to the neighbor when complete as he didn't think it would be effective without a direct drive engine.

 

[Mike Fortner]

I was thinking about building a PTO driven vacumn to clean drainage ditches when I was informed about this thread. I was thinking about something a little larger and heavier, 24" to 30" diameter 6" to 8" deep with at least a 10 gauge housing and 1/4" impeller blades. Maybe even a fly wheel. The Idea was to break up any small sticks or whatever that might clog up system.
After seeing some of the concerns in this thread with a smaller version , maybe I'm over reaching a bit? The concern that really caught me was the mention of damageing PTO gears. I am sure I could overcome that with a shear pin , but if the PTO is really that weak I wouldn't want to chance the strain on it. I was thinking if the PTO would run my 5' bust hog it would surely run an impeller? Even a big one?
Okay now let me know how flawed my idea is . PLEASE!

 

[Agent Blue]

I am not worried about the PTO strength when the machine is running. Its the electric clutch that causes the instant starting motion on the small gears. Eventually it will cause slack in the bearings and transfer this to the gears which at one point will damage the wear surface. My 55 hp tractor engages the pto slowely with out a sudden jar. The 4110 starts the mid and rear PTO at the same time when your using the combination mower / vacuum together. Small tractors have lite components that carry a very high price tag.
My fan is 12 1/2" in diameter with 10 guage material and 4" blades. There is enough weight to put this in motion instantly to cause concern.
I may consider a replacement aluminum fan in the future if this combination pans out.

 

[Agent Blue]

Made the transition to blower hose from the mid mounted mower last evening. Used 20 guage material which should be more than adequate for durability. Next a matching 8" collar from the square 5"x5" square fan housing exit.

 

[jenkinsph]

Looks good so far, really interested in how this works with the pine needles.

Keep up the good work and keep posting your progress.:thumbsup:

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

I am curious about your choice of pully sizes. You have a large pully on the pto and a small pully on the jack shaft.This increases your pto speed. Then you have a small pully on the jack shaft going to a large pully. This slows the final drive back down. Did you check your final drive speed with a tach or just do the math.
Bill

 

[jenkinsph]

I am curious about your choice of pully sizes. You have a large pully on the pto and a small pully on the jack shaft.This increases your pto speed. Then you have a small pully on the jack shaft going to a large pully. This slows the final drive back down. Did you check your final drive speed with a tach or just do the math.
Bill

Bill look at his picture again, both sets of pulleys are increasing the fan speed.

 

[Agent Blue]

Look at the picture on the previous page. Drive pulley to small pully ( increaser ) jack shaft with small pulley has a larger pulley to the left on the same shaft. This is driven to a smaller fan pulley ( also increaser ) for final RPM. I ran the pulley sizes through the RPM Caluclator. I also marked the drive pulley and the fan pulley. ( One full turn of the drive pulley moves the fan pulley 6.25 revolutions ) The ratio is 6.25 to one that makes the 540 increased to 3375. By two seperate calculations I believe it is very close to the final shaft speed. It moves a tremendous amount of air at mowing RPM and I am sure with an eight inch chute the vacuum created will be adequate to drive those leaves / pine needles to their final holding position.
I have no reason to believe it won't work. The jack shaft arrangement gives me the closest distance between the mower and the fan. If I can get the product to the fan the four inch fan blade surface will create the motion to continue the journey. Besides for less than a hundred and a small amount of brain stimulation I have created a moving monster that .......... if ducted to the future cab project would cool the operator!

On another note;
I just received my 427 BBC engine back from the rebuilder. Project next is to stuff it back between the frame rails of a 66 Vette that carried this iron ingot for the past half century. The specs may have been improved, the fire is still alive and there is no better surround sound ! A symphony of moving parts and exploding gases returns one to the days of thunder.... and real ground pounding power. Smell the Gas, Tires and Oil yet ?
A classic example of why some gear heads never grow up. A wandering mind is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[Agent Blue]

Finished the inside duct work on the mower take off and built the two flex pipe adaptors for the fan housing today. The five inch inlet / outlet on the fan seemed small by todays standards. They were expanded to the eight inch variety that hopefully will avoid getting plugged and provide better air flow. I have some expanded metal for covering the drive pulleys but until it is tested and works properly that will have to wait. Besides the tractor interlock system will not let the PTO operate once you have left the seat. ( I like these child proof features )

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

Bill look at his picture again, both sets of pulleys are increasing the fan speed.

Sorry,I guess at 5am I wasn't as awake as I thought I was. This is a verry good build. Do you think the vacuum created by the blower will help the deck pick up the pine needles.
Bill

 

[jenkinsph]

Sorry,I guess at 5am I wasn't as awake as I thought I was. This is a verry good build. Do you think the vacuum created by the blower will help the deck pick up the pine needles.
Bill

I think Agent blue is doing a good job with the build but I am a little concerned with the pine needles packing up the blower housing. I have a Deere MC519 cart and blower that is brand new so I haven't had a chance to try it on pine needles yet. I already know the pinestraw rake will work great without issues, does a great job and has no moving parts. I am betting the pine straw rake is about 4 times faster than a vacuum cart.

Right now picking up pine needles is fixing to make my phone ring alot since we have a major forest fire underway here in the Ruidoso area. I have already started getting calls from people who suddenly realize the dangers they are facing.

For me it is a matter of which method is faster to load the trailer at the lowest cost. I can back up the ramps with the tractor and cart or use my rockbucket and 110 to load the trailer with the tractor and rake bunching them in the loading area. I will know alot more about this in the next couple of weeks I am sure.

 

[Agent Blue]

Steve;
I had a Yard Vac with a smaller blower unit and a 5" flex hose that was about 6 feet long from mower to blower fan. Another section of hose to the cart ( about 4' ). This combination packed in pine needles so tight one had to force a fork in the trailer to unload.
For this reason and others unknown I ventured out on a whim to make something more compact, less engines, and easier to unload. The rake idea sounds good. I would have to put together a rake with thin tines and a loader bucket that would self load. The current flat edge bucket would only push the pile around. With the amount of wind this combination moved when tested I have no doubt it will provide plenty of air flow to place the debris in the container.

How close are you to the fires ? A little wind and the heat involved sure would make this disaster mobile. Good luck stay a safe distance. A few pictures if you get a chance.