Pto driven wagon

[clear cut kerr]

Massey Ferguson used to have a wagon that had the wheels driven by the tractor ground pto.Can you still find something like this today ?

 

[jeff9366]

tractor ground pto

This is very unclear to me. Please clarify.


WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?

 

[CalG]

They are available in Europe, I have seen some recent video of small scale logging operations using them.

What are they?

A wagon, built on a "typical differential axle" With it's drive shaft input connected to a ground speed driven pto from the tractor. Some of these driven wagons have an input speed selector gearbox to best match various tractors/ wheel size/ ground conditions etc.

My Hurlimann 435 has a ground driven pto selection option that would be suitable for a driven wagon application.

 

[lilranch2001]

I dunno….. it seems like it would be difficult to mesh the wagon driven speed to the tractor travel speed……

But then, maybe I’m not the smartest person in the world either

 

[2manyrocks]

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but there are utility trailers with wheels powered by the PTO of some particular models of 2 wheel tractors. Driven-wheel Utility Trailers - Earth Tools

They have to have a PTO sync'd to the drive.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The trailers are for tractors that have the "ground driven" pto option, I have a couple of tractors with THAT option.

It's not a common option here in the US..

SR

 

[CalG]

I dunno….. it seems like it would be difficult to mesh the wagon driven speed to the tractor travel speed……

But then, maybe I’m not the smartest person in the world either

It doesn't need to match perfectly, "Over driven" slightly works well on soft surfaces. There would be no need for the feature on good traction conditions.

Heck, the drive speed between front wheels and rear on a 4WD tractor are not perfectly matched.
Fronts usually want just a bit extra speed over the ground than the rears to make steering easy.

 

[John0829]

I have not seen it myself but a guy I worked with for years told me about the Mennonites taking old truck frames to make trailers and connecting the drive shaft to the PTO. Said they could get some real speed doing that, claimed they did it so they could get to and from town quicker.

Like I said I never saw it myself.

 

[4570Man]

I have not seen it myself but a guy I worked with for years told me about the Mennonites taking old truck frames to make trailers and connecting the drive shaft to the PTO. Said they could get some real speed doing that, claimed they did it so they could get to and from town quicker.

Like I said I never saw it myself.

A 540 shaft with standard truck rear end gears won’t go very fast. Probably not as fast as the tractors stock gears will go.

 

[LouNY]

A 540 shaft with standard truck rear end gears won’t go very fast. Probably not as fast as the tractors stock gears will go.

It would be about as fast as the truck would have been at a low idle in whatever gear gave it a 1:1 ratio on the transmission.

 

[CalG]

!:! used to be top gear on all transmissions. 3rd on a three speed/ 4th on a four speed box.
That was frequently termed "straight through".

An OVERDRIVE was an option. Over drive being a faster output than input.

Again, for a trailer, Tire and wheel size has a large effect.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

It wouldn't be hard to build a PTO powered trailer, using a basic live rear axle with reasonably correct gears, then fine tune it with tire height.

 

[CalG]

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but there are utility trailers with wheels powered by the PTO of some particular models of 2 wheel tractors. Driven-wheel Utility Trailers - Earth Tools

They have to have a PTO sync'd to the drive.

Whoa!

Easy to sink $10K into one of those two wheel tractor setups. Though I would like one (a lot), the price just seems high compared to the work I would get out of it.

This should go in the 2 wheel tractor thread, I know)

 

[PreacherM]

I have not seen it myself but a guy I worked with for years told me about the Mennonites taking old truck frames to make trailers and connecting the drive shaft to the PTO. Said they could get some real speed doing that, claimed they did it so they could get to and from town quicker.

Like I said I never saw it myself.

I've also heard this story from dependable sources. They may have used two speed rear axles or 1000rpm PTO to get higher speeds. The way I heard it some of these rigs could hit 50mph! Not for me.

 

[CalG]

Curiously, the old Fordson E27n does not have a live PTO. That is, when the engine clutch is put in, no power goes out to the pto. The pto output speed is directly connected to engine rpm, and so indirectly connected to ground speed vie the transmission gear selection.

The impractical (read hazardous) side of using this tractor with a pto driven trailer would be selecting the neutral position of the 3 speed gear box, and letting out the clutch, without disengaging the pto drive selector. The traailer would drive the tractor down the road even though in neutral.

Hmmm Maybe that's what those old boys had in mind in the examples mentioned above.
Can anyone say when the first dual clutch, live pto tractor was offered? And are there any tractors offered today without? (No need to go to the offerings from China)

eta

The Fordson E27n was advertised as "The First Post War tractor from England with Power Lift Three Point Hitch and PTO" (Please note, England had sever restrictions on materials allocations right after WW2, and new designs for agricultural equipment were not easily approved. The E27n was a prewar design in many ways.

 

[redman135]

Go to palmmach.com or valtra.com. There are other examles like a log trailer and hay/silage baler. The stepless gearbox and ground drive is new to me.
Also look on you tube, there were some examples of ground drive trailer in use in India. (note, they say "trolley" NOT trailer to refer to trailers towed by tractor.)

 

[John0829]

I've also heard this story from dependable sources. They may have used two speed rear axles or 1000rpm PTO to get higher speeds. The way I heard it some of these rigs could hit 50mph! Not for me.

Same thing I heard, 50mph on a tractor, not for me either.

The person telling me about said they put the tractor in neutral and let the "trailer" push them down the road. Also some of them used the transmission with it somehow turned around backwards. Output shaft for the input and input for the out. I can see how it would be easy to do that using a truck auxiliary transmission like we had in some old Ford LT880 dump trucks at the quarry.

We had a good laugh, just imagine one guy driving the tractor while another rode and shifted gears on the trailer.

Like I said never laid eyes on it myself but told about it from trustworthy sources.

I did a Google search and while I found MANY PTO driven trailers, none mentioned Mennonites.

 

[CADplans]

t My BIL built one to feed hay bales to cattle in wet feed lots,,
He was always getting stuck,,
so, he built this in the '40's or '50's..

He took some old (?'30's?) truck frame, with transmission,, and put a drawbar on the front.
It had a pto shaft on the front of the transmission.

The "powered" trailer went through the feed lots 200% better than simply pulling it with a tractor.

Matching the wheel speed was unimportant,,
when the trailer wheel drive was engaged,, every tire was slipping/spinning anyways.

I only saw the trailer used in the summer when we were baling hay,,
The front of the transmission shaft would be spinning if you did not have the transmission in neutral.

 

[clear cut kerr]

tractor ground pto

This is very unclear to me. Please clarify.


WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?

Massey Ontario

 

[Jrasband]

Donndiy, a fabricator on youtube built a rtv and a pto driven logging trailer with a boom on it.