PROPANE TANK OWNERSHIP

[farmer2009]

You must have farm use in order to lock in that option.

Yes. We are a commercial broiler poultry operation. Company swears we are there cheapest rate. They say grain dryers pay more than poultry. Until this year we were on a keep filled system. Now we have to call in every time for fill up. No tank charges unless we don't use 1.5 times tank volume per year. We don't have that problem. Most other companies don't give a volume discount for farms. When I was pricing next cheapest company lock in was 1.20.

 

[dragoneggs]

We're seriously thinking of getting an automatic propane backup geneator, but would need second tank to run it off and have been thinking about whether we should contract with Suburban for that one too.

I am sure results vary by region, but Suburban was who I got out from under a lease. They did me no favors on fuel pricing. Now with Ferrell and they seem to be treating me much better as an owner.

 

[aczlan]

Well, IDK where you are, but around us here under the big lake, more than 95% of the big tanks are buried for all of the reasons previously given.
We don't have any BoS, but own our tank (as per the original owner/builder, whom we bought from) and even so, the other propane companies (other than the ones who buried it -Agway at the time, and now Suburban.) all stated that they won't touch a tank that someone else buried.
We're seriously thinking of getting an automatic propane backup geneator, but would need second tank to run it off and have been thinking about whether we should contract with Suburban for that one too.

Try Kirkwood (Propane | Kirkwood Heating & Oil), we switched to them at work (and for most of the employees), they have been great to work with.

Aaron Z

 

[Garycw]

I have two accnts with Ferrell and they are usually cheaper than some of others. They do however have TWO prices if you lease theres or own tanks. Price per gal. is higher if you lease tanks from them

 

[ultrarunner]

For 25 years we had the same local owned propane company... never a complaint.

The last 20 years or so it has changed hands several times... must be a lot of money in propane.

 

[Raspy]

Very interesting discussion. I will be calling my propane supplier today, to see what they have to say. Perhaps the reason why my generator stoped working was that the pressure was too low, not that the tank was completely empty. Still, it was not very cold outside.

The outside temp is only one factor. Since the liquid propane cools as it boils off to make gas, there has to be a heat source to keep it from getting so cold that it can't boil fast enough to carry the load. Outside air temp on a hot day can compensate for a heavy draw of gas. But if there isn't much liquid in the tank, that same amount can cool much faster than a nearly full tank. This means you can draw a very large amount for longer with a nearly full tank before the liquid gets too cold. More mass of liquid means slower rate of temperature change.

You can see this affect on small barbeque tanks when running a heater or all stove burners. The outside of the tank will begin to condense moisture starting where the liquid line is. The liquid is getting colder. Now imagine if it happens on a very cold day.

That's how swamp coolers work. Liquid water evaporates and causes cooling. Liquid propane evaporates /or boils, and causes cooling.

 

[Sprinklerman]

For 25 years we had the same local owned propane company... never a complaint.

The last 20 years or so it has changed hands several times... must be a lot of money in propane.

I have driven both oil and propane trucks . Mark up on oil .50 to .75 per gallon . Propane $ 1.00 to $ 3.00 per gallon it all depended on the customer

 

[bobmisi]

I live in Connecticut and just installed my (owned) 250 gallon underground tank last week-end. I was not required to install a concrete pad. It was inspected by the fire marshal before backfilling to make sure there was sand under it and the piping . Next was a pressure test. Local supplier gives us 1.10 per gallon discount for owning our own tank. It is almost impossible to buy a new tank in New England, even if you are a plumbing and heating company. I got mine out of Pennsylvania. There are many tank dealers in New England, but they will not sell except to propane companies, so they can lease them to you. Total B.S. but where there's a will, there's a way so the saying goes.

 

[kthompson]

I may have missed this in the conversation about tanks popping out the ground but the water level comes into play on this also. The higher the water level the greater the pressure on the tank. I am sure the type of the soil covering it also for certainly loose sand would not hold like heavy dirt.

On the tank getting too cold for gas to come out, boy that is an issue here in cold days with portable bbq cookers. You often seen dual or even more tanks being used together for that reason in the winter. Please note 30 F above is cold here. Have no doubt 40 below does not have issue. Yes we are cold this AM, dropped to at least 27F, burr. About our third heavy frost of the year.

 

[kthompson]

I may have missed this in the conversation about tanks popping out the ground but the water level comes into play on this also. The higher the water level the greater the pressure on the tank. I am sure the type of the soil covering it also for certainly loose sand would not hold like heavy dirt.

On the tank getting too cold for gas to come out, boy that is an issue here in cold days with portable bbq cookers. You often seen dual or even more tanks being used together for that reason in the winter. Please note 30 F above is cold here. Have no doubt 40 below does not have issue. Yes we are cold this AM, dropped to at least 27F, burr. About our third heavy frost of the year.

 

[Streetcar]

I may have missed this in the conversation about tanks popping out the ground but the water level comes into play on this also. The higher the water level the greater the pressure on the tank. I am sure the type of the soil covering it also for certainly loose sand would not hold like heavy dirt.

On the tank getting too cold for gas to come out, boy that is an issue here in cold days with portable bbq cookers. You often seen dual or even more tanks being used together for that reason in the winter. Please note 30 F above is cold here. Have no doubt 40 below does not have issue. Yes we are cold this AM, dropped to at least 27F, burr. About our third heavy frost of the year.

The depth of water only matters until tank is completely submerged

 

[PhysAssist]

I am sure results vary by region, but Suburban was who I got out from under a lease. They did me no favors on fuel pricing. Now with Ferrell and they seem to be treating me much better as an owner.

Thanks for the feedback!

T

 

[PhysAssist]

Try Kirkwood (Propane | Kirkwood Heating & Oil), we switched to them at work (and for most of the employees), they have been great to work with.

Aaron Z

Thanks for the referral!

T

 

[Clint S]

STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM SUBURBAN AS YOU CAN. They are horrible. Come fill your tank and then charge at least 1$ more a gallon than ''going rate'' then when you call they will drop the price 50c or so and act like they are doing you a favor. Think of all the older folks that trusted Agway that they are ripping off. Charged my 90 year old granny $4 a gallon for fuel oil when they charged me $2.10 when I called and complained. There is a class action suit against them.......

 

[PhysAssist]

STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM SUBURBAN AS YOU CAN. They are horrible. Come fill your tank and then charge at least 1$ more a gallon than ''going rate'' then when you call they will drop the price 50c or so and act like they are doing you a favor. Think of all the older folks that trusted Agway that they are ripping off. Charged my 90 year old granny $4 a gallon for fuel oil when they charged me $2.10 when I called and complained. There is a class action suit against them.......

Hi Clint,

We are kind stuck with them for the tank we inherited when we bought the place, but I appreciate the info, and will look into the class action.

Thomas

 

[dragoneggs]

Hi Clint, We are kind stuck with them for the tank we inherited when we bought the place, but I appreciate the info, and will look into the class action. Thomas

Don't know your needs but if you are planning on refilling a leased tank for more than a couple years you may want to run the numbers on lease vs. buy. Conservatively figure at least a buck more a gallon plus the tank rental vs. buy. Also check new vs. used tank pricing. I think they try to scare you with lines when you suggest buying like, "well... you will be responsible for maintenance". What maintenance? I brush the evergreen needles and twigs off of it once a year so. Check the dial quarterly for a refuel call.

 

[Clint S]

I was on auto fill and free lease . A few years ago I got sick of them and told I would pay rental fee and to not to refill it. Sure enough they come and fill it . Then they say I had to pay their outlandish price per gallon and if I want them to remove the propane they would pay me half of what they charged me. I then promptly padlocked the tank so they could not fill it. Sure enough they came again to fill it after I told them not to and found it locked. They gave me crap about needing access to the shut off valve even though you could reach in and turn it through a hole. I then made a cap with an access hole for the valve and left it locked. Sure enough they came again and tried to fill it and found it locked. I was home and the driver said he could legally cut it off. I told him he most certainly could as long as a law enforcement officer was present. He left and that was the last time they came. Funny thing is they never came to get their talk and I rolled it into the woods.

I would do anything I could to get rid of that tank. Run it dry and buy a 100# tank to use until another company can set a new one.

 

[check]

Wow, these are some pretty nasty stories! I had better call my supplier and their competitors to see if there's anything going on that I don't know about here!

 

[Mutterranch]

I worked for Amerigas for 20+ years. This sounds like something they would do. They sometimes installed underground tanks on a 10 year lease - purchase agreement during which time you agreed to buy from them exclusively. However, they typically didn't keep very good records as to the date installed. Often times they don't even have record of the contract. I can tell you from experience that if the district can not show you a contract or lease agreement, the tank is yours! Even if they did the installation, they can't show ownership. Do you have the sales recept for everything you own? Do you think the courts would allow a retailer to repossess any other item in your possession without their being able to prove ownership? Not a chance. This is an attempt to force you to buy their gas.
Don't worry about underground tanks "wearing out". If it was installed properly and has adequate protection from galvanic corrosion (an anode bag) your're good to go. It's a simple five minute test to determine the strength of your anode. Most any public utility or reputable propane dealer can do it for a minimum charge.
Good luck.

 

[onelostdogg]

We rented tanks for the last 10 years...didn't know any better. Our last fill with Suburban they left a bill and want $6.02 per gallon! That was about 5 years ago. Called to complain and with no questions asked the rep offered to lower the price to what we had paid for the previous fill, which was$3.25. As soon as the check cleared I called to stop regular deliveries and had them pick up the tanks when they were almost empty. We then leased tanks from a different supplier for several years...STILL didn't know any better.ast year we bought tanks from a local Amish guy who sells tanks all over the Northeast. Now instead of $3 a gallon we are paying around $1.25 for the same gas from the same supplier. Shopped prices and he turned out to be the cheapest in our area. Tanks will probably pay for themselves by the end of the winter.