problem with broken off bolt

Fireman_dcb · Jul 28, 2006

Not sure if this is the place to post but here goes....

we bought a pellet stove last year, worked like a champ we saved about 500 bucks when comparing cost of pellets to oil. 4 more years and the stove will have paid for itself.

But, I have to give the heat exhangers a good cleaning every year using two pull rods that scrape off any fly ash from off the outside of the tubes in the heat exchange box. Side A on the right side works fine, Side B on the left side will pull out about 1/2 way then stop. Seems to be an issue with some serious fly ash build up. I needed to take out the right side cast iron plate then remove the top cast iron plate in order to access the tubes.

Here comes the p.i.t.a. I was using a 5/32" hex head on a 1/4" drive with a 6" extension to remove the bolt that holds the plate in place.... I got about 1/4 turn on the socket when the blasted hole stripped out. Made a trip to Sears to buy a "back out" kit that I saw advertised on TV. I drilled the hole as the instructions stated, inserted the backout device and began to exert pressure; obviously more then the backout device could handle 'cuz my brand spanking new Sears Craftsman backout device snapped like a dry twig - of course it broke off flush with the head of the bolt that I was trying to get out.

I spent the next 30 minutes trying various methods to remove said broken backout device from the stripped out bolt; from vice grips to redrilling the broken backout device (of course its hardened steel that will snap but its not easy to drill).

I'm thinking that my next step should be welding a nut to the head of the bold and try to get it out that way - which would entail me A.) buying a welder (which would move the break even price of the stove back a few years), B.) trying to remember the welding lessons I learned 25 years ago from my highschool ag teacher (I'm sure whatever I do will look like bird crap), C.) trying not to set fire to the living room and D.) not to mention having the pleasure of listening to my CEO remind me about this incident for years to come .... any other suggestions on how to remove the bolt?

AlanB · Jul 28, 2006

Nope, you are on the right track, sometimes you can get an easy out, back out by tightening it, but I doubt it in this instance from what you have described.
I have no idea what you are working on, or what it looks like, but is there some "larger component" that you could reasonably remove that would include that bolt and take it to a machine / welding shop?

Oh, and high temp antisieze would probably be a good investment I think.

dbdartman · Jul 28, 2006

First thing to try is working the broken EZ-out out with a good center punch. If that doesn't work, heat (from an AO torch) usually makes them soft enough to drill.

After this, search tool suppliers for left-handed drill bits & buy a set. They are SO much better than EZ-outs.

BTW, the ONLY success I've ever had with an EZ-out was removing the stub end of a broken brass pipe-to-tube fitting in a tranmission case. Every other attempt has resulted in the same situation as yours (turning a bad situation into an even worse one). I HATE EZ-outs! I LOVE left-handed drill bits!

3RRL · Jul 28, 2006

A 5/32" allen wrench you say?
That's usually for a 10-24 or 10-32 socket head cap screw. In a stove they're pretty much rusted shut as you found out and it's toast now anyway....
Here's what I'd do after what you did:
-Hack saw off the head flush
-Center punch and drill to tap size (start with #26 drill Ø.147)
-Re-tap with 10-24 tap
or if a 10-32 shcs, use a #21 drill Ø.159 and re-tap with 10-32 tap.
Otherwise you'll be pulling your hair for days on that stupid bolt.

Soundguy · Jul 30, 2006

As you found out.. easy outs "aren't"

You got good advice. Once you ge the easy out remenant out.. drill it out and follow the good advice here.

Depending on how deep the easy out is, and how soft the parent bolt is, .. you may be able to use a punch to get the easy out loose a bit to help extraction...

Soundguy

Fireman_dcb said:
Not sure if this is the place to post but here goes....

we bought a pellet stove last year, worked like a champ we saved about 500 bucks when comparing cost of pellets to oil. 4 more years and the stove will have paid for itself.

But, I have to give the heat exhangers a good cleaning every year using two pull rods that scrape off any fly ash from off the outside of the tubes in the heat exchange box. Side A on the right side works fine, Side B on the left side will pull out about 1/2 way then stop. Seems to be an issue with some serious fly ash build up. I needed to take out the right side cast iron plate then remove the top cast iron plate in order to access the tubes.

Here comes the p.i.t.a. I was using a 5/32" hex head on a 1/4" drive with a 6" extension to remove the bolt that holds the plate in place.... I got about 1/4 turn on the socket when the blasted hole stripped out. Made a trip to Sears to buy a "back out" kit that I saw advertised on TV. I drilled the hole as the instructions stated, inserted the backout device and began to exert pressure; obviously more then the backout device could handle 'cuz my brand spanking new Sears Craftsman backout device snapped like a dry twig - of course it broke off flush with the head of the bolt that I was trying to get out.

I spent the next 30 minutes trying various methods to remove said broken backout device from the stripped out bolt; from vice grips to redrilling the broken backout device (of course its hardened steel that will snap but its not easy to drill).

I'm thinking that my next step should be welding a nut to the head of the bold and try to get it out that way - which would entail me A.) buying a welder (which would move the break even price of the stove back a few years), B.) trying to remember the welding lessons I learned 25 years ago from my highschool ag teacher (I'm sure whatever I do will look like bird crap), C.) trying not to set fire to the living room and D.) not to mention having the pleasure of listening to my CEO remind me about this incident for years to come .... any other suggestions on how to remove the bolt?

Fireman_dcb · Jul 30, 2006

Folks,

Thanks for the advise... I'm off to search the Web for some good hardend drill bits, left handed bits and a tap/ die set. Won't get to it for a couple of weeks (unless we get more rain on the weekends); lots of mowing to do.

thanks again, Doug

Brad_Blazer · Jul 30, 2006

A diamond bit in a dremel might go thru the broken easy-out.

Soundguy · Jul 31, 2006

O/A will destroy their temper.. Plasma will cut them, and welding on them a bit will make them easier to remove, .. if you weld a nut on.. etc..

soundguy

Frodo1 · Jul 31, 2006

I have never tried it, I have never heard of anyone trying it, but I have always wondered......

What would happen if you hooked several batteries in series, grounded the stove and used a nail (bolt?) as an electrode to "Spot weld" it on to the stub? Could this work? Would you need any gas/flux protection for the short time that the arc would be going? It seems to work great for welding screw drivers on to sheet metal when I forget to disconnect the battery on my car or tractor!!

markct · Jul 31, 2006

a few car batteries in series with jumper cables will allow you to arc weld for a short time, long enough to get a nut stuck to the head of the screw most likely, altho ya want to be carefull that you plan this at a time when no one needs to drive anywheres! 3 car batteries tho is enough to stick most stuff together enough to limp it home, so it should be more than enough to weld a nut to a screw

Soundguy · Jul 31, 2006

I agree.. .. 3 car batteries can arc weld at 36vdc, and put out a couple hundred amps ( more ) for a good few beads...

Soundguy

HGM · Jul 31, 2006

I'm a big fan of the penetrating oil(oddly no one mentioned it yet) as a first course of action.. Especially if you have to wait a couple of weeks.. Soak it down every night.... A butane or propane torch to the outside of the nut/bung/whatever the bolt is screwed into trying to avoid direct heat to the bolt then try the center punch in the clockwise dirrection to remove the EZ out first and jar the bolt a bit at the same time.. Whether the EZ out comes out or not, now its the time for the L/H bit if the EZ out is out, or the center punch in the CCW direction.. Penetrating oil, heat and persistance will get it out, just be careful and remember the oil is flamable.... Good luck..

tillerkiller · Jul 31, 2006

I have broken off an 'easy-out' also. I thought that it broke way too easily, but I see that everybody has had the same problem.

Anyway, while we are on the subject of penetrating oils, here is the best stuff that I ever used, by far.

http://www.pbblaster.com/store/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=1

Wal-Mart has it, I dunno about anybody else.

dieselsmoke1 · Jul 31, 2006

dbdartman said:
After this, search tool suppliers for left-handed drill bits & buy a set. They are SO much better than EZ-outs.

Left handed drill bits......wish I would have thought about that instead of breaking 2 EZ outs in one day a while back. Have seen bolts break lose from the heat, vibration, pressure relieve, etc. of drilling and spin in many times.

I'll own a set of these soon. Thanks for the idea.

HGM · Aug 1, 2006

dieselsmoke1 said:
Left handed drill bits......wish I would have thought about that instead of breaking 2 EZ outs in one day a while back. Have seen bolts break lose from the heat, vibration, pressure relieve, etc. of drilling and spin in many times.

I'll own a set of these soon. Thanks for the idea.

Some of the better EZ out type kits come with their own matched size L/H bits.. I've got a Snap On set and like it pretty well, though of course it doesnt always work and you need to get creative...

Soundguy · Aug 1, 2006

It's better than nothing.

Many times I think easy outs break because we try to use one that is slightly too small for the job. However.. .. sometimes there is just no good way to go about attacking the job.

To the other poster.. I agree about the pb blaster.. it works great.

In the past i have mixed up diesel or kero, and ATF fluid and put into a pump spray bottle. It's cheap and works -almost- as good as pb oil.. especially if you have lots of stuff that needs to be hosed down.. etc.

Soundguy

Farmwithjunk · Aug 1, 2006

Another good penetrating oil is brake fluid. (DOT 3 works best)

HammerFour · Aug 1, 2006

Heat, pbblaster, taping with a hammer as best you can.

I hate easy outs, they only make problems worse.

Soundguy · Aug 1, 2006

I'll bet the guy that invented them giggled alot while thinking about this project and filling out the directions...( he was probably a machinist looking for more work.. ) drill hole.. insert hardened ( and nearly non drillable ) tool into hole... apply as much pressure as possible,.. take part with broken easy out into machinist for extraction, plus original repair...... buy new easy out to replace the broken one in your set...

Soundguy