Power Trac vs 4wd Tractor

Gravy · Apr 30, 2006

Chad,

I've got really rocky soil (or maybe dirty rocks). If I didn't have the reversing valve, I'd likely have several permanently installed PHD augers as yard ornaments. The 6" auger is particularly adept at threading itself in between the rocks like a big woodscrew. I've learned to recognize when it's happening and back off on the pressure, but I'd still be uncomfortable without the reversing option.

I also plan to use the same valve for the winch, just as soon as I find that big bag of Round Tuits. I want to put quick-connects on both ends of all the hoses, each motor, and each valve, so it will all be modular and interchangeable.

The only PT improvement I've managed this weekend was reversing the stump grinder. I'd hoped to try the next phase of the filtration project, but spring weather is better for using a PT than for modifying it. (Gee, life is tough, ain't it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Dave ("Gravy" - short for "Gravy Davy", a mechanic's nickname that was more ironic than accurate) /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

MossRoad · May 1, 2006

When you say a large PT would handle a scrape blade are you thinking about the 425 or someting larger like a 1430/2430? 

I'm thinking the units that are larger than the 400 series. The 400 series are not very heavy, and therefore, it is much easier to spin the tires when you hook up an implement with the soil. I just cannot see how my PT425 could pull a scraper blade with any degree of success as compared to a larger, heavier model. A box blade is different because you can bust up the soil with the scarrifier teeth and then you are moving loose material. But a scraper blade is not busting up the soil first. It is a much tougher job and requires more brute force and traction than I think my Pt425 would have.

Again, it comes down to what chores you need to do most often and getting the tractor that can best do those chores.

farm23 · May 1, 2006

One of my primary requirements is to maintain a 1/4 mile of gravel road and keep the ditches clean. Depending on the weather I am going to the factory Wed or Thur this week.

I will give my impressions and PT's input after I get back.

farm23 · May 1, 2006

Just spoke to Scott at PT about a visit to factory this week.

Scott said the diesel series of tractors were air/oil cooled and do not have glow plugs. Has anyone had trouble with starting in the winter. It gets 0 deg here often and I will need the tractor to start to remove snow. The barn does not have electricty so it is unheated.

What has been the experience of you diesel owners when the temperature drops and you need to use your tractor.

MossRoad · May 1, 2006

I think there has been some discussion about this. Some diesel owners have purchased a device that goes in the air intake that preheats the air. You may want to do a search in the Power Trac forums for "glow AND plug" or "glowplug" and you will probably find the discussions. While the device is not a glow plug, it is referenced in those discussions.

Hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Spiffy · May 1, 2006

Duetz makes a neat engine, they are oil cooled. I do wish they had glow plugs, but you can get a manifold heating plug installed.

I tried my 45 once last fall at 30F before I had the plugs installed: it started, but not very willingly. I had it at 35 in the garage all winter, no problem. Now it's back outside, but with the heater coil, haven't had any trouble - but haven't been below perhaps 25F. I've also read that gently heating the intake with a blow torch works great instead of the heater, but haven't tried it.

As far as the box blade versus the scraper blade. If you are maintaining the roadway rather than shaping it, I think you'll be fine with a scraper blade. Except that I don't know how you'd angle it, the box would be more versatile; for litterally maintaning a road, I'd want an angled blade. PT makes a 6ft blade for the XX30, so I'd sure think it could manage a 4ft.

As JJ noted too, steady ground engaging stresses are better suited for conventional machines; however, as far as being able to handle a particular task, you have to look at weight and HP: a 4WD CUT will the same weight as a given HP PT will have a slight advantage on the larger rear tires (and the fact you can fill them), but the PT does a pretty good job of putting HP to the ground too.

BTW, I liked the engine sound of the 45HP better than the 30HP; that is a pretty lousy reason to compare the two, but I do think that a 1445 would get more HP in about the same footprint as a 35HP tractor.

If the orchard is the priority, I'd be leaning to the PT. Long and short, I don't see an obvious decision for you, but think you'll have fun trying the options! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

RegL · May 2, 2006

( Just spoke to Scott at PT about a visit to factory this week.

Scott said the diesel series of tractors were air/oil cooled and do not have glow plugs. Has anyone had trouble with starting in the winter. It gets 0 deg here often and I will need the tractor to start to remove snow. The barn does not have electricty so it is unheated.

What has been the experience of you diesel owners when the temperature drops and you need to use your tractor. )

I plow driveways for pay with the 1430 and it has not failed to start down to 10 below. When it's cold you have to crank it for a while before it fires up so you need battery in good shape. That little 2 cyl will start and run on 1 cyl for up to a minute before the other one kicks in. The hydraulics are a different story. Sometimes have to let it run for half an hour before I can move the tractor.

farm23 · May 3, 2006

Thank's to everyone who has given me their input.

I just came back from seeing Scott at PT and am convinced of the quality of the product. Scott was kind enough to give me a tilt meter to check out my land.

I found most of my land is 15 to 20 deg but a significant amount is 25 to 30 deg. Scott said the 425 was limited to 20 deg because of the engine. I now have to justify a 1430 which is ok to 30 deg. I really do not want to spend the extra $3000 fot the 1430.

Any input would be appreciated.

KentT · May 3, 2006

( I now have to justify a 1430 which is ok to 30 deg. I really do not want to spend the extra $3000 fot the 1430.

Any input would be appreciated. )
Only $3000? I thought the price difference was $6000 -- from $10K to $16K...

farm23 · May 3, 2006

Oh my!! You are right. It was $3000 extra for the 2425 and $6000 extra for the 1430. That does not help with my decision. I could buy all the attachment I want plus a tralier to carry everything for the extra $6000.

Does anyone have experience with running the 25 HP gas engine on 20 deg plus inclines?

Bob999 · May 3, 2006

30 degree slopes are tough to work on and there is always the possibility, however remote, of a mechanical failure. The 1430 depends upon the hydrostat drive system for operating brakes. The parking brake is not suitable for stopping a moving machine. I recommend the 1845 if you are going to work on slopes of 25 to 30 degrees. It is extremely stable on slopes of this magnitude and has an excellent emergency braking system. However, even the 1845 with dual wheels will slide on a 30 degree slope.

farm23 · May 3, 2006

Most of my work will be 25 deg or less. The problem is if the engine should fail evidently it would not be covered by any warranty and the engine mfgr is the one with an insufficient oil sump. I think the 425 itself would be ok for my task.

ernemats · May 3, 2006

I have a 422 and much of my land I mow is 10 to 20 degree slope with some as much as 25 degree slope. I have had no problem mowing 20 degree slope sideways, when it gets to 25 degree the pt front wants to slide sideways a little if the mower is in float position. Lift the mower up a little and no sliding. 25 degree mowing sideways feels a little uncomfortable. I currently have 870 hours on my 422 with no problems.

pequeajim · May 3, 2006

I mow a portion of my property at 18-20+ degrees sideways. One stripe across the hill only lasts about 15-20 seconds. I would not feel comfortable mowing anything steeper than the 20 degree slope for any extended period of time. I've had no problems at all.

BTW: I use the 60" finish deck on mine.

MuncyBob · May 4, 2006

I pretty much echo the same as the above..but we do have some very steep slopes that I will run downhill only on...and that's exciting enough for me! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

farm23 · May 4, 2006

Thanks for the input. I have a Wright zero turn mower made in Maryland with a Kawasaki sp? engine. It is a mountain goat of a mower and the engine does not have limit angle. The practical limit for me is about 25 deg. So I will not be mowing with the PT.

One of my first projects will be to dig a ditch from my shop to my garden. Which will mean digging across a slop that is between 20 and 25 deg. Most of the time I will have to transverse the slops to get to work areas.

The majority of the work will be done on slope of less than 20 deg but should I be concerned about the few times when I will be working for an hour or so on a slope of 20 deg or more.

MuncyBob · May 4, 2006

The center of gravity changes with the PT articulation.....I have raised my wheels several times when needing to turn one way or the other while traversed on a slope...somewhat exciting but nowhere near tipping.....but it's something you need to be very careful about! I learned to be very careful on slopes with running the Farmall tractor for a number of years before getting the PT. I go VERY SLOWLY while traversing any steep slope!!!!!!!!!!

KentT · May 4, 2006

( One of my first projects will be to dig a ditch from my shop to my garden. Which will mean digging across a slop that is between 20 and 25 deg. Most of the time I will have to transverse the slops to get to work areas.
)
IMO, digging across a steep slope is a dangerous venture for any machine other than perhaps a very few (like the Spider) specifically designed for such a task. Stabilizing a conventional TLB to dig across a slope is a challenge, even with its hydraulic stabilizers on the back because the front axle pivots and the FEL's bucket is the only way to prevent that....

None of the PTs have "outrigger" types of stabilizers, and the 4XX and 14XX machines have no stabilizers at all...

Could you perhaps rethink the routing of the ditch to allow you to dig down the slope then turn it at the bottom to get to the ultimate destination?

Bob999 · May 4, 2006

Most of my work will be 25 deg or less. The problem is if the engine should fail evidently it would not be covered by any warranty 

From a safety standpoint the potential problem is loss of hydraulic pressure, for example a burst hose or failed connection, that would allow the machine to run away on a steep slope. Neither the 425 or the 1430 have a braking system that will stop the machine in this situation. The parking brake is not designed to stop a moving machine, and the service brakes are the hydrostat which will not operate with a broken hose.

Marks481 · May 5, 2006

How about when the engine stalls when you are mowinng up a steep slope... with your foot clamped down on the treadle, which elimintaes the hydraulic lock, my 422 has on a couple occasions immediately started drifting backward... not a good feeling, especially with no brakes. Quick restart of the engine solves it, but I wish that Powertrac had spent the extra $100 or so to get the wheel motor with the built in disc brake.

Maybe I will retrofit (at least the front wheels) some day.