Power to Barn

[3acres]

Here's a down 'n dirty quick question...
I'm extending power from my house down to my barn which is about 170 feet from the house. I'm going to trench and can either lay direct bury wire or gray plastic conduit and regular wire. What would y'all suggest? Maybe direct buried in conduit? The soil around here is pretty much silt with no rock.
I'll be installing two 10/2 cables.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ToadHill]

I'm no expert but I always had a concern that conduit will fill with water and as we all know electricity and water don't do well together. I always trench then put in several inches of stone, put in a little landscape fabric to surround the wire and cover, but that's just me.

 

[tommu56]

3acres

check this thread out

450' wiring conduit -how to assemble? - Page 3 - TractorByNet.com

I woulden't suggest direct burrial in conduit

by that I meen uf service cable the flat stuff that looks like NM ("romex") with solid conductors.

what amperage are you going put in?

uf is real hard to pull in so you have to over size conduit

With conduit use thwn wire its for wet locations

or direct burrial

with direct burial you need to put screenings under and over it and put an s bend at each end were it enters the conduit going up the building wall so when the wire settels it will unravel the s and not pull box and condiut off the wall

Also put an extra conduit in for phone and cable or for later

tom

 

[studor]

Code here call for u/g cable in conduit on a bed of sand with a marker tape on top before burial. Just curious --instead of running two 10 guage wires, why not run six guage three wire and put a 60 amp "pony panel" in the barn for more flexibility?
regards

 

[JB4310]

Here's a down 'n dirty quick question...
I'm extending power from my house down to my barn which is about 170 feet from the house. I'm going to trench and can either lay direct bury wire or gray plastic conduit and regular wire. What would y'all suggest? Maybe direct buried in conduit? The soil around here is pretty much silt with no rock.
I'll be installing two 10/2 cables.

Thanks in advance!

Here's a couple of links about the conduit anyway, what are your electrical needs for the barn.?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/139326-450-wiring-conduit-how-assemble.html?

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/137937-underground-electric-service.html?

One 10-2 in that distance will give you one 20 amp circuit, 2 of them or a 10-3 will allow for a lite 220 volt circuit.

Should be enough for power tools and lights etc, not a welder or electric heat.

I second the opinion of the larger wire and small panel out there.

JB.

 

[DTCOOPER]

Setting a sub panel is the only thing to do...
A small MLO panel will set you back less than 30-40 bucks.. Then you can divide load on the 2 legs and have many more circuits.. I would recommend a minimum 60 amp service out there.. With you only going 170 feet, voltage drop will not be a concern. Then you could run lights, a welder, grinder, compressor, etc. Pulling 2- 10/2 UF cables will just barely get you a 240v compressor running.. Then some lights.. Much easier to go overboard now, and have it for later use, if the need ever arises..
Direct Burial URD (if you can use aluminum) wil be the least expensive route to take.. It's what the utilities use around our area.. There is NO NEED to put direct burial rated conductors in conduit.. If you can use direct burial per code in your area, just do that.. And buy the largest you can afford (and what your existing service will allow you to feed)

 

[czechsonofagun]

I done it including the subpanel. Since we have play room/guest room upstairs in the barn and my shop in a lean to I included phone line and Cat5 for LAN. The UF cable went in first, bit of dirt and phone+network cable in gray plastic conduit.

 

[rambler]

I don't believe the 2 10-2 wire setup is legal or a good idea, if I understand what you are doing. Could be a real bad idea.

3-6 would be cheaper by the time you are done. And give you 40 amp - or a bit more if you don't mind dimming lights.

3-2 aluminum would give you 60 amps.

2-10 at 170 feet doesn't even give you 15 amp.

Doubling the wires to the same circut is a real bad idea. Sets up bad things happening. I'm not sure what you are trying to do with the pair of 2-10, but it just doesn't sound right.

Most situations you also need a seperate ground wire, so you need 4 wires for 220v, or 3 wires for 120v.

'Here' direct burial is the way to go for larger feed wires. One would not use a conduit.

--->Paul

 

[dex3361]

I agree with Rambler if you put a 120V circuit in it will take 3 conductors
(1-hot, 1-nuetral, 1-ground) if you put a 240V circuit in it will take 4 conductors(2-hot, 1-nuetral, 1-ground). For a garage I would install PVC conduit and pull in individual conductors and set a Sub Panel with spaces for at least 6 or 8 breakers. The size of the conductors will determine the size of conduit. With that said it is easier to pull wire into conduit that is oversized. Keep in mind that you are allowed a total of 360° of bends (4-90° bends or 8-45°, etc.)in a run of conduit without a pull point. It would help to know what you want to power up now and what you may want to do in the future in the sizing process.

 

[EddieWalker]

Rambler said it best.

As for conduit or direct burial, it's an either or type situation. Both have their advantages. If you don't have rock in your soil and it's legal to do so, then direct burial if faster, cheaper and easier. Conduit will collect water. Longer runs will hold gallons of it and is a big problem. I've sealed each section of pipe with silicone when running regular romex in conduit because it's what I had availbable. If I'm going out to buy wire for somethng, I'm buyin aluminum direct burial, but that's just me.

What do you want to do in your shop? 170 feet isn't very far, so it's not a huge expense to go with a wire large enough to have 240 volts and 50 amps to run a welder or air compressor at a minimum. If you plan on living there for awhile, doing some repairs or building anything, then I'd go with a 125 amp sub panel. The price won't be that much more and it's the same amount of work. You will never have any regrets once it's done.

If all you want is a light and an outlet, then the 10 gauge is plenty for a single cirucuit. I

Eddie

 

[flusher]

Here's a down 'n dirty quick question...
I'm extending power from my house down to my barn which is about 170 feet from the house. I'm going to trench and can either lay direct bury wire or gray plastic conduit and regular wire. What would y'all suggest? Maybe direct buried in conduit? The soil around here is pretty much silt with no rock.
I'll be installing two 10/2 cables.

Thanks in advance!

That's a lot of work for two dinky 10/2 cables. If I were doing this, I'd install a 220V/100 amp subpanel in the barn and run #2 AWG copper wires in conduit. That's how I did the 200-ft run from the main breaker panel to my shop to handle the welder and air compressor.

 

[GE222]

When installing power to a remote shed about 120 feet from the house, I buried four PVC pipe runs.

The first 1-1/2" was for the main power to the building.
The second 3/4" was for 120v wiring for lighting between the house and shed.
The third 3/4" was for low voltage communication.
The fourth 3/4" was a future spare.

PVC pipe, especially 3/4" and less is really pretty inexpensive.

The trench was dug, and sand was placed around the pipes. Expansion couplings were also used.

Sand was used as it is the easiest to move with a hand shovel in the trench.

The wiring was all THHN.

Talcum power was used as a dry pulling lubricant.

The 100A feeders, 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground were pulled with a small hand operated pulling winch using mule tape. The pipe was oversized up from 1-1/4" for ease of pulling. The cost difference was very almost nothing.

3 of the 4 pipes have been filled.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I have worked for the power company for over 22 years,we used to always direct bury everything,I cant tell you how many I have gone back to over the years to dig up and fix burnouts which requires specialized equipment, do yourself and your kids a favor put it in pipe and no one will ever have to dig up the yard again for that reason. believe what you will that conductor will fail one day and if it is in conduit it is a quick fix.

 

[tommu56]

The trench was dug, and sand was placed around the pipes. Expansion couplings were also used.

.

I'm at a loss why you used expansion couplings its one more place for the conduit to leak not to mention the cost?
The tempature swing if any burried under gorund isn't enough to make condit expand
The only place I've seen or used them is on a roof were the sun gets to the pipe and then it will grow.

tom

 

[Inspector507]

I'm at a loss why you used expansion couplings its one more place for the conduit to leak not to mention the cost?
The tempature swing if any burried under gorund isn't enough to make condit expand
The only place I've seen or used them is on a roof were the sun gets to the pipe and then it will grow.

tom

tom,
The issue is not expansion underground. It is to compensate for ground movement due to settling and a freeze/thaw condition. They go in the vertical portion when you emerge from the ground. And if you install them upside down in a vertical position, they will leak. Around here, we require them unless the horizontal run is below the frost line.

 

[tommu56]

tom,
The issue is not expansion underground. It is to compensate for ground movement due to settling and a freeze/thaw condition. They go in the vertical portion when you emerge from the ground. And if you install them upside down in a vertical position, they will leak. Around here, we require them unless the horizontal run is below the frost line.

Inspector507
Now that make seance.

Most of the ones I put in are below the frost line or have good drainage so they haven't heaved.

The old guy I (well now that I am his age I guess he wasn't that old) worked with when I was a teenager would always put the bells down on the risers to keep the water out and on the direct burial he would put a 12" side ways "S" in the vertical so the wires wouldn't pull out of meter terminals.

tom

 

[Only 3 Acres]

Here's a down 'n dirty quick question...
I'm extending power from my house down to my barn which is about 170 feet from the house. I'm going to trench and can either lay direct bury wire or gray plastic conduit and regular wire. What would y'all suggest? Maybe direct buried in conduit? The soil around here is pretty much silt with no rock.
I'll be installing two 10/2 cables.

Thanks in advance!

Thanks everyone for your replies. I would have chimed in sooner, but changed my email addy in my profile and never got a confirmation email, so couldn't post. I registered again and here I am.

To clear things up:
I planned on adding two breakers to one of my house panels (plenty of horsepower available in both). From these breakers I was going to pull two cables, a 10/2 off a 20 amp breaker to handle a couple livestock fans rated at 3.5 amps each and a 12/2 off a 15 amp breaker to handle a few outlets and a half-dozen or so 50watt light sockets.

Total distance from house box to barn would be about 240 feet. I went to this website HERE to size my wire.

I've got a shop in our 3rd car garage, so don't need juice in the barn for a welder, compressor and all that.

Does my plan make sense? Just trying to keep the cost as low as possible.

 

[BungeeII]

I don't believe that calculator is factoring in the cable being buried.

At 240' I'd by a spool of whatever the proper size is and put a 40 to 60 amp panel out there.

 

[tommu56]

After a couple trips to rest the breakers you will wish you had a sub panel out there to reset.

tom

 

[rutwad]

I understand trying to save money, but spending a little extra now will save you big in the future. I vote for the sub-panel which will give you room to grow.