Post-Purchase Depression and Upgraditis

[Anonymous Poster]

I have had a BX2200 with loader and 60 inch mower for a few weeks now. I had thought of getting something slightly larger, but after using the BX2200 am glad I purchased the smaller tractor. I have 12 acres, 4 acres of fields, the rest woods. What convinced me was mowing along the pond at the rear of my property. Any tractor with a higher center of gravity would present a real problem given the slope of the banks. So far I am pleased with the tractor. The three point hitch is barely catagory 1 though. That might be an issue when I look for a small rotary cutter and rear blade. I'm hoping Kubta will resolve that issue.

 

[PaulB]

Just a thought - couldn't you simply remove the lower arms of the 3 point, and replace them with arms from a B series tractor? Seems to me that would fix the "barely cat 1" issue for good, but am I looking at this too simplistically?

 

[glennmac]

One 3ph experience is one too many.

I once removed my empty weight box from my BX. I could not spread the arms far enough to get it off unless I lengthened that turnbolt thing on the variable length coupling. (It's not even a turnbuckle, which themselves are horribly klutzie.) Then there were the 15th century cotter pins that you can't open or close. And all I was doing was the easier process (removal) of a very light weight implement.

That's enough for me. I could easily foresee crowbars, mauls, tugging, yanking and inury in my 3ph future. As far as I am concerned, the tractor industry should be ashamed of itself for developing nothing better after 85 years than the 3ph. It should get the mega-spinach award for the worst interface ever developed.

If this Connecticut yankee is gonna spend $15-$20K, or eventually more, on tractor stuff, you can bet that Freedom Hitches are and will be an essential part of the budget.

Glenn

 

[W5FL]

The 3 point hitch wasn't on my Dad's tractor that we go in the mid 50's. The ONLY lift mechanism on it was gear driven lift for a plow. You had to crank it, because it did not have a starter or battery. All other implements were pulled. Granted that was 45 years ago, but most of the 3 point mechanisms of today are really first class. We average changing an implement or two every 4 to 6 hours and the total operation takes about 5 minutes. My tractor has the adjustable 3 point links and a hydraulic top link, but I wouldn't give a dime for a freedom hitch, but recongnize that there are those that do.

It normall works like this. Back up to a mower. Remove a clip and pin if they are in the tight position, slip the lower 3 point ends over the mower pins. Punch the upper hydraulic link, slip the pin through it and pin it. Set the brakes on the tractor and push the pto shaft on until it clicks. With the freedom hitch, the pto shaft must still be coupled and that takes as much time as the 3 point pins.

Now this is not a BX, I am talking about, but it sure works well and is easy to couple. No crowbar, no sledgehammer, and I can take 5 minutes to put on an implement that I will be using for 4 to 12 hours at a time.

 

[Harv]

I'm still watching from the bleachers here, but is there any merit to the DeltaHook 3Pt quick attach adapter that appears in the Gearmore catalog? It looks like this. I will post the specs if it will help.

 

[glennmac]

Wen, we come at tractoring from different life experiences. You apparently grew up with them. They are new to me.

I understand from reading and from some very old dealerships here in Connecticut that, originally, each tractor manufacturer had its own connection scheme for its own implements. Sort of like you can't run Apple computer programs on IBM hardware. Then, in about the 1960's, standards organizations standardized on the various 3ph categories. So, I am sure that the 3ph was an improvement. But once anything gets standardized, it is always hard to change the standard even when something better comes along.

I have paddled canoes for 50 years, and enjoy paddling in some old boats that new participants in the sport would sneer at. It's part of my life experience. (Of course, little do they know that I have 11 other boats, including the hottest new models.)

I have a 110 mile commute each day, have only the weekends to tractor, and don't want to spend all my free time doing it. I see the larger issue of removing and mounting all the heavy implements (3ph, FEL, mid-mower) as being a significant deterrent to using those very implements. So, when I see a product that allows you to attach or detach in 5 seconds--not counting PTO shaft, as you point out--I see that device as worthy of 5% of my tractor budget. Plus, it adds about 110 lbs of rear counterweight.

But mostly, I guess, I have none of my personal history invested in 3 point hitching--as I do in wooden canoes, for example--so I simply choose not to get involved in something that, to me, is inferior technology.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

3 pt hitch Disgust

Wen, in your comment about just removing the arms off the pins...

He may only have the BX to use has his 3pt example. If I didn't have another tractor here that has been used with 3pt implements, (Ford 1710) I would be extremely frustrated with it as well.

On the Ford you just slip the arms off easy as pie. Quick, easy, no fuss no muss, like you said, minutes.

On the BX you CAN'T spread the arms out to get them off outward facing pins, even with the chains off. I cannot spread the link off of the pin. (I threw out the goofball cotters and just put little finger snap locks (my term) in them for speed) I have to pull the safety pin then force the implement sideways out of the arm. It is completely bizarre. The BX may meet the legal requirements of being a Cat 1 but in all seriousness, I would love to have the designer(s) time for a day. I would like to see them put this Cat 1 rake on and off this BX over and over and over and over. And they can put on their "upgrade" which I do not think is going to solve the problem.

And as another fellow posted, why can't the arms of the B75 or B2410 be used? I wonder, it would probably be closer than the link arms off of my Ford or L35 which I am probably going to try.

There are a dealers reading this forum (quietly, lurking in the background) I would like to address each of them and ask that they go out and check this for themselves. I would also humbly suggest that if they are telling people this is a CAT 1 hitch they might want to consider taking cover when the buyer gets a belly full of dealing with it.

As I mentioned, it probably is LEGALLY a three point hitch but it is a huge problem compared to a "typical" 3pt. As I mentioned in another post, when the links are attached to an implement the lower arms are completely spread to the point that the sockets are at the extreme maximum of movement, rendering them worthless as a pivot. If I didn't have a backhoe here with a chain hook on it to hold up implements and move them around I don't know what I'd do.

And I don't agree with the other fellows suggestion to use Cat 0 implements. No offense meant, but the CAT 0 implements I have seen are designed for 2WD garden tractors and would probably bend in half if they caught on a rock even with the BX pulling them. The whole business of using a CAT 1 implement IS being able to have the advantage of using them between different tractors, and also having the benefit of finding them anywhere.

del

[email]oldcarparts@mygarage.com [/email]

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've seen those freedom type hitches (some big JD's come with some type already). They seem to work great.

All BX's should come with them!

The disadvantage is they seem to push the load out farther back, you have a limited lift capability and even if you can still lift the implement you are still hanging more load on the back then necessary. Sometimes this helps your work, but can also make steering a problem if you are hoping just front end weights (no loader) are going to hold you down. The other problem is that if it is a freedom hitch that has outward pins there is still a problem as the lower link arms are jammed so far outward that they really look like they are going to have a short life, especially the pins on the tractor end!

This type of setup is used on a lot of big construction equipment, I watched a guy with a big excavator change is bucket back and forth from his seat! I want that! Six inch backhoe bucket...OK now 36 inch bucket!

 

[gordon]

The quick change hitches are an up and coming market. Why you ask---LABOR COSTS AND SAFTY---. If a landscape company that changes 3pt implements often it can pay for itself not only in timesavings but also the safty of not having to get off the tractor unless you have to hook up a pto shaft.

Now to someone who has been hooking up 3pt's for a long time it might not seem to be worth it. But think of the college kid who has a summer job landscaping and look at it from a bosses perspective. Just from the labor savings alone it pays for itself real quick---thats not even taking into account the hassle factor of hooking up.

If I could afford a freedom I'd have one!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon

 

[gerard]

Harv, that design is the same one that freedom hitch uses. I got the freedom hitch video and I would buy one if it wasn't so expensive. The problem is you have to buy a tractor part (one) and then another part for each implement you have. At about $200 for the implement part that adds up. If I made my living at it it would be a no brainer. As far as hooking up an implement in 5 minutes I'm skeptical depending on the implement. My rake, no problem, I can horse it around. My cutter, same thing since the pin portion has some movement. My 5 ft box blade with added weight - forget it. If you're not on perfectly level ground you have to futz around some raising and lowering the 3 pt to get both sides to match up. (The top links the easy part) I'll probably break down some day and get the freedom hitch and then kick myself for witing so long. Anyway I have to agree, the current 3pts are a poor design and could be greatyl improved for hook ups similar to those used on skidsteers. They can just drive into something and pick it up and they have probably 20 different implements designed to attach that way.

 

[Bird]

I, too, got the video and literature and the only reason I'm not using the Freedom Hitch is $$$$./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[gordon]

Yea Bird same here, it's a shame that were not rich and could afford all the extras that we would like to have!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

But then we wouldn't appreciate what we had anyway if we were rich, I guess so I'll stay right where I'm at now. Could be much worse off than I am no doubt about that!!
Gordon

 

[glennmac]

Goodbye, depression. Hello, mania.

The Kubota is dead. Long live the Kubota.

After listening to and weighing all your comments, after a second round of mind-bending tractor shopping, after more paralysis of analysis, after endlessly recirculating in an eddy of indecision--after all, I took delivery Saturday of a new tractor to replace my returned BX2200. It is:

-- B2910, FEL, 72" mid mount mower, non-folding ROPS
-- R4 industrial tires, 75% hydroinflated with CaCl in tubes
-- Woods MD 160 medium duty 60" rotary cutter with slip clutch and stump jumper
-- Walco 10 cu. ft. 3ph dump box, which can be used for variable rear ballast with 70lb. sand tubes
-- Freedom hitches

Until the day of delivery, I kept worrying that I had bought too much size, notwithstanding much counsel to the contrary.

Then I spent two full days on the tractor . . . and . . .

I LOVE IT!

It is almost as maneuverable as the BX for mowing. Actually, even more so when I mow with the FEL off, because I alway mowed with the FEL and a weight box on the BX. I can cut just as close circles around my trees with the 72" deck on the 2910 as with the 60" deck on the BX. It leaves no more scuffs on my lawn with the R4's than the BX did with its bar turfs; and with the FEL off it even scuffs less.

My total mowing time for 3 acres was cut by at least 15%. The ride is MUCH more comfortable than the BX, due to the longer wheelbase and the springloaded seat. I would buy the 2910 over the 2710 just for that seat. I do not notice the liquid fill at all in terms of ride.

It floats better on the soft wet soil of my creek area even though it is 800 lbs. heavier with the filled tires than the BX, probably because the footprint/weight ratio is actually greater than the BX. Wen suggested this. Moreover, there is significantly more traction and less spinning in the soft soil.

The loader is no comparison. I smashed into my big brushpile just for fun and moved it significantly backwards. Along with Max, my stickaholic German Shepard, the 2910 dug and ripped out the evil willow stumps with a vengeance. Of course, the soft soil looked like Dresden afterwards, but I've become pretty good at backdragging my bucket to fill in the ruts. I smashed again into my brushpile just for fun. I haven't yet used the brush hog. But did I tell you that I smashed into my brushpile just for fun.

One thing. I did not fall victim to the specious bigger-is-better philosophy. Nor did I succumb to the siren song of buy-as-big-as-you-can-afford. I maturely resisted these puerile urges. Rather, I scientifically re-specified my tractor requirements and simply bought the machine that met those requirements.

Yessirree. Now I want to go and and play with ... er, I mean, properly operate my carefully specified cruise control, so I can engage in some carefully required--yes, dear, absolutely required--brake steering in my wetlands.

Nosirree. I am not a tractor junkie, toy freak, yiownekneb ... uh, excuse that typo. My Kubota nose ring fell onto the keyboard and bounced onto my Bush Hog pajamas. No, you guys are the tractor and Tractorbybet addicts.

And you know what I think of that? ........

DEAL ME IN!

Because of all your valuable advice on this board, I want to share with you a Newtonian, Einsteinian brilliant insight I have developed about tractors. I and Al Gore are probably the only people who know this, but here it is free of charge: Traction and power are good things. Did any of you know that?

I'm sitting in a hotel in West Palm Beach, wishing I could ... smash, in a carefully specified manner, into my brushpile.

Sincerely, thanks all for your unselfish time and sharing on this board.

I'm grinning. Bigtime.

Glenn

 

[Harv]

Glenn -

I keep an online dictionary running on my computer all the time now, just in case you post. Came in real handy this time. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Congratu-damn-lations on your new perfectly-thought-out-and-well-rationalized toy -- I mean much-needed piece of equipment. You sound like you're on the same high I've been on for the past few days. And it's a nice place to be, ain't it?

And thanks for reminding me -- I have a humongous brushpile at the property that I have not introduced to my new tractor. I think it's time they got acquainted. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[gordon]

Glenn I'm very sorry to hear that your so unhappy with your new tractor./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
To get over the unhappiness you could always smash into a brush pile that always makes me feel better!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Or you could pile up the brush pile then ram the brush pile.
For what it's worth you could burn the brush pile---naw thats no fun.
Good luck with the new tractor.
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Congratulations! I'm glad you're so happy with your new tractor.

It was also very good of you to include Al Gore in your summation of the state of tractor knowledge. He'd be very upset if you if you hadn't. Another little known fact of history is that he invented the tractor - just before he invented the Internet and created the strategic oil reserve program. At least he can't likely claim to be the father of the lie, even if he is one of its greatest benefactors. Even more incredible, the media seems to believe him when he makes all these incredible claims - at least they certainly don't contest them. (You realize, of course, that I don't recall him claiming to have invented the tractor. That one one was exageration on my part - though he certainly could have, without breaking form in the slightest, at some uncovered glad-handing event in the midwest.)

MarkC

 

[Bird]

Amen!

Bird

 

[Alan L.]

Playing in the brush pile is one of my favoritest activities with my 2710. Just set on that tractor and push those thorny limbs around and not even get a scratch. With nothing to mow this summer all I get to do is push my brush pile around. Its starting to lose a little bit of the lustre.

Amen Bird and MChalkley on algore.

 

[scruffy]

Alan L, you could revert to some of the age old military training, by moving that brush pile from the 'NW Forty', to the 'SE Forty'. At least that would provide a change of viewpoint/scenery! ;o) Learned about that sorta stuff from my Dad long before the military re-taught me!

 

[Alan L.]

I've done that, as well as made the pile round, long and skinny, short and fat, tall and pointed, even square. From a distance it looks like I'm making real progress.