Post-Purchase Depression and Upgraditis

[ejb]

Glennmac,

I have no experience with the Kubotas, but I have a 27HP Yanamr (about 15 years old, 2wd, turf tires and a 60inch belly mower and a Woods vacuum/grass catcher) that does an absolutely beautiful job of mowing my finished lawn...golf course quality job in fact, real nice. I do have do the trimming with a small push mower around some trees, but besides that I have never felt it was too big to do the mowing...never chews up the lawn, and is still manueverable enough to mow just about anywhere. I don't beleive a 27HP mower would be "too big" for mowing.

On the other hand, it will, in all likelihood, be too small, still, for pulling stumps...so don't be suprised.

I have always been suprised at how hard it actually is to pull stumps, digging them out with a backhoe would be much easier I would think. Besides my Yanmar, I have a JD5410, 65HP, 4WD, loaded tires, loader etc, and even it has a very difficult time pulling out even small stumps (4+ inches). If you try to pull them out with a loader, the back tires come out of the ground and if you pull them with a chain, not only is it dangerous, but it makes a god awful mess on your lawn when the wheels start spinning.

You'd think they just pop right out with a big tractor, but they really don't want to come out. Don't set yourself up for another disappointment when your next tractor still can't pull modest stumps out of the ground.

Good luck.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've been lucky enough to be able to play with a BX and a B2710, my neighbor owns a B2710 and a Land Pride 72" finishing mower, I own a BX1800 with a 60" belly mower. I would have to say from what I have seen the BX is about the best if you want a nice lawn and be able to do other tractor stuff. What do I have against the B2710, it's to heavy for mowing lawn. My neighbor bought the B2710 because he has about 8-10 acres to mow, the soil in my area is sandy, this summer we have seen plenty of rain which in turn has caused plenty of ruts in the yard compliments of the porky B2710. When I mow my yard it is a pretty smoth ride, but the last couple of times I helped my neighbor mow it was rough, his yard has taken on a wash board look from the weight of the B, he doesn't have loaded tires or a front end loader on it. I guess you could say I'm glad I chose the BX, I spent plenty of days wondering should I get a B series or a BX, then it was should I get the BX1800 or the 2200, my dealer wanted another $750 for the BX2200, it just wasn't worth the extra dollars when you consider the BX1800 and the BX2200 will both handle the same attachements. I might have spent the extra $$ if the BX2200 would have done more than the 1800, it just wasn't there.

 

[Roy]

It all comes down to finding the right tractor for our use. No matter how much research we do, we can never be absolutely sure until we put some hours performing the task that we require. There is a basic 'goodness' in the rule to always size up, but as with every rule of thumb, there are limitations and exceptions. It's a tough call and as they say, the final proof is in the pudding.

Msocko3; I agree that there is really no difference between the two. The $750 price differential is enough to make one think which model do they really need. When they were first introduced, the differential was less than $400. That was too close in my humble opinion to warrant much thought. Sounds like pricing wise they have achieved a better balance.

Glennmac; I like others, am very impressed that their was no taking a bath. Sure can't beat a $12.50/hr rental rate, and you didn't even have to that 50 hour maintenance!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

My suggestion to chain pull them left out one minor item! You would also have to ax cut as many roots as possible. Some trees are amazing. I was digging out a small willow tree, 3-4" maybe. Couldn't break one of the roots with the hoe. Hm, I'll just go farther away and dig. Still stuck. Hooked a chain on just that root 2 feet away from the stump. Pulled out a 15 foot long root that was running along the surface! From a 3-4" tree! The wood was unbelievable strong, much bigger roots from most other trees just snap, this was like a piece of tow rope!

 

[glennmac]

Yeah, Del, that's what I'm facing--willows. My German Shepard, Max, who is a stick-aholic, can get these roots out better than my tractor. He can easily chew though them because they are soft wood, and then he plays tug-of-war and peels the root from the ground like the string from old bandaids.

Glenn

 

[W5FL]

Look at one thing while you are making up your mind. Some of the newer models actually have the extendable lower links that make hooking up to the 3 point at least $1000 easier and save a lot of knuckles. You will enjoy the ground clearance of this series and they are a true compact tractor with a lot of capability.

 

[Bird]

The B2910 has the extendable lower links that the B2710 does not. I sure do believe they could be interchanged, but don't have proof as yet.

Bird

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Sounds like you need some more motivation for your assistant. How about filling a big bowl with dog food, filling it up with water, drain the water off and coat the roots with it! Sit in a lawn chair and watch the work begin!

Dogs truly are man's best friend, sometimes...

Now and then we have a mole in the yard, the ones that make the tunnels you just tamp down with your foot are great, others pop up every foot and bring their excavated dirt up. We thought that was the worst of it. Then the dog began "helping". Massive excavations! Never catches the mole as she's just chasing their scent!

Sure would be nice if I could train the moles to help me install an underground sprinkler system without disturbing the sod! They can't seem to maintain the same depth and dig like they are lost!

del

 

[scruffy]

Del, I used to have a Ridgeback that I swear I coulda got rich from hiring her out to till gardens....if I could've just figured out how to replicate the mole scent! That dog dug up more territory than your average 3 pt tiller! Funny thing is, she actually caught some and then played with them like a cat does with a mouse.

 

[glennmac]

What you see depends on where you look.

I continue to appreciate the thoughtful comments and am continuing to evaluate my upgrade possibilities. The range of your feedback is fascinating, everthing to defending the merits of the BX to the L series.

I am clearly at the 2410 in my mind now. The question is whether to go further up. If I do go up, I would probably go to the 2910 because it has the same frame size as the 2710, thereby being just as "bad" for my mowing maneuverability concern ("bloated" according to one view), but has 3 more hp and some ease of use amenities.

So, 2410 vs. 2910 (or even bigger).

Now, what do I see. If I look at my current 2 acre lawn, both can do it, obviously, but I see the 2410's more maneuverable frame size as preferable. If I look at my 2 cleared but rough, small-stumpy creek-straddling acres, I see a mixed bag: both can clear (as could the BX), but the 2910 would be faster. However, once cleared, the 2410's maneuverability may again be better, and also the lighter machine should be better in the often wet or soft ground. If I look further out at my next 3 acres of completely wild, semi-wet acres--cattails, brambles, phragmites, grassy-weedy and small trees--I suppose if I could drain it into the creek somehow (can this be done}, it could become a nice, field or meadow or growing plot. I've never done any of that stuff, but I assume bigger is better here. Finally, if I look even farther at my 3 acres of sloping, hilly acres of northern harwood forest--well, I have no idea what kind of tractor is good in the woods, or what I would even do there. I think maybe cut a few trails and clear stuff. Maybe nothing; who knows.

These views of my land are listed in order of priority. The lawn must be cut and so must the creek acres. I invested in an expensive gazebo near the creek and a 54" inside width arching railed bridge over the creek. (This bridge has been limiting my thinking. It is the only access to my back 8 acres and I cant get anything bigger than a 2410 with a 48" brush cutter over it. But I have now accepted the fact that I will have to build another vehicle bridge.) The other, over-the-creek 7 wild pasture/hilly woods acres dont have to be tractored at all. But maybe I'll want to. That all depends to me on whether tractoring is fun or a chore--which I dont know either.

So, if I look at my definite needs, I see the 2410 as meeting my needs. But if I look farther over the creek and wild wet pasture and up the hill--which I often do both with my eyes and my mind--I can see that bigger would be better.

How far do I realistically look? Neither time nor money is limitless. What weight do I give to the competing views? There are no objective answers to these questions. No machine specs can answer them.

I am beginnig to believe that the "right" tractor is not so much one that right for my property, but one that is right for my mind.

Glenn

 

[W5FL]

Yeah, you are doing better now. You have one misconception, though and I am not suggesting my tractor to you. My M6800 will work all day better in the creek because it has very large tires and enough weigh/sq ft to push the ag treads into the creek to get traction, 4WD and when you have something in the bucket, I can do something with it. The large tires span small ditches and it will go where a smaller tractor can't.

Always look at both the weight of the tractor AND the size tires on it as well as the HP to determine the type work it can do. Many larger tractors do not compress the soil any more than smaller ones - all depends on the square inches of tires in contact with the ground.

 

[MarkV]

Glennmac,

Sure can be hard to buy new tool/toys these days. In reading your posts, I was wondering what your snow removal needs would be? No one is thinking about snow down here in the south, but, yours is right around the corner.

You are the only one who can evaluate your maneuverabiliy needs so size may be the main consideration. I know a lot of finish mowing is done with tractors in the 2910 range and larger. Many of us have found that a new tractor opens up so many more projects than we thought we would take on, larger seems to work better. Guess you have already seen some of that. I wonder if the larger tractor with turf tires might not work best. For your wet areas, turfs may not be the best although chains for snow and mud area developement or the extra wide turfs work for others on the forum.

Just my thoughts to help add a few more clouds to the issue.

MarkV

 

[glennmac]

Wen and MarkV are raising a tire issue that I may have wrong. About 3 of my acres are wettish. Standing water ponds up in some areas after rains. Even when "dry" the soil is always softish. My BX bar turf tires would spin out under the light loader stress and dig ruts. I always could get out with the 4wd, but what a mess. (This summer has been unusually wet, however).

I have been assuming that I need a very aggressive tread (ie, r4 industrial; i will no go to ags) are what I need near the creek. Are either of you suggesting that wide turfs are better that r4's? Do you mean they will sink in less, or bite the same, or float the tractor higher (even a heavier tractor)? Or what? Now I'm unsure of what tires for wet-prone, softish, moist land.........Glenn

 

[gerard]

Glenmac,
I was in the same boat as you, 1.5 ac finish grass, 9 acres field/pasture. Bottom line was I could get a small lawn tractor for the finish grass cheaper than I could buy a 3pt finish mower ($1300 for a riding hydro mower vs $1500 for a finish mower) By going larger I got the option of doing a lot of things I couldn't do as well with a smaller machine and could get R1 tires without worrying about damaging the grass. I wouldn't want to do field mowing with turfs or anything that required a lot of traction. The one machine fits all concept just doesn't work well.

 

[glennmac]

Gerard, your logic is impeccable and it reminds me of my initial goal: to get a motorized machine to mow my lawn. A lawn tractor. Then it became: mow the creek area. Then it became: why not a 3ph to do some other things occasionally. Then it became: why not a cool loader. Thus was born the BX.

All of a sudden I'm seriously thinking of buying a machine to terraform the planet, requiring me to buy the original lawn tractor, but now as second machine, to mow my lawn.

I must remember my original focus.

 

[PaulB]

Ken - as you are not registered I can not send this via private message, so I hope you will see this post. I also have a B1700, and absolutely love everything about it EXCEPT its relative unsteadiness on slopes. Just bought a tiltmeter (will post on my experiences with it after some more hours) which has helped, but just looking at the 2 machines side by side I would think the BVX is more stable than the 1700, as it is lower, with almost the same weight. Any comments on the stabiility of the 2 tractors from someone who has owned both?

 

[Kelvin]

A few more thoughts...
I believe the B2410 does still offer the Bi-Speed turn option for the extra maneuverability (the B2710/2910 doesn't).

Whenever you buy, it sounds like you could use a set of turf tires and a set of Ag tires. I wonder if a set of Ag tires for your BX would help things?

 

[kj33]

Paul,
I guess I've just been lazy about logging on. Actually I have been a regular at this site for about three years. I actually won a Kubota hat from Muhammad back when the site was a Kubota only web site.
So you own a B1700. I loved mine but it was more machine than I needed. I did have one incident where I almost tipped it over on its side. I was hauling the 72' Landpride rear blade with the bucket loader and I had the bucket raised for clearance. My bucket had 2 hooks that I had the dealer install when I purchased it. One on either side. I had the rear blade chained to the right side bucket hook. I was trying to get by my Explorer and the ground was uneven sloping up on my left. As the tractor started to engage the tilting grade the blade swung to the right and the tractor pitched to the side almost throwing me off the tractor. In fact I thought it was going over and I am looking at my brand new 99 explorer and thinking "oh s--t".
Well it didn't go over and the blade didn't swing into the Explorer but it sure wised me up to the tipsiness of a tractor with the bucket raised.
My B1700 had loaded rear wheels which I think is a must if you have a bucket loader. I do think that the B1700 does need to be carefully maneuvered on slopes. The BX2200 (36 hours) that I now own has loaded rear wheels and my experience with it to date has been that it is much more stable on slopes than the B1700. Actually the additional 5 hp somewhat compensates for the loss in traction due to the smaller rear loaded tires.
I have been moving some large rocks on my property for a shed I am building. Picked on up with the BX2200 loader that was just about the limit of the lifting weight capacity (460#) of the machine. The tractor was just on the verge of lifting the rear wheels off the ground all through the transport of the rock. I decided that I am going to add the wheel weights because of this experience. I also bought one of the R&B manufacturing tilt meters to keep me honest about how much tilt I am experiencing. I haven't installed it yet as I am waiting till the Chappel Tractor installs the Curtis Cab I bought with the tractor. It should be soon.
Oh, and I am a lot more serious about the seat belt usage now based on these experiences. I just wish that they didn't keep tightening down on you in the seat so much. I think that with the added rear wheel weights and the 5 hp that the BX2200 will approach close to the B1700 in pushing capability. It will never have the LA301 loader’s lifting capability. I hope this info helps. I would be interested in hearing your "war" stories.
Best Regards,
Ken Johnson


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kj33 on 9/1/00 09:42 AM.</FONT></P>

 

[PaulB]

Ken - thanks for the post. For my most celebrated war story search the archives for "Up on 2 wheels...need new underwear". that was me. I don't truly fear a tipover now that I have a couple of years experience with my tractor on my land, but I do hate the general feeling of terror that accompanies almost every time I use the tractor on any slope at all - just a general feeling of unsteadiness. I do not have this feeling using my garden tractor on slopes WAY more steep than I would EVER take the kubota on, and I attribute this to the lower stance of the garden tractor. Hence my interest in the BX. I may ask my dealer to let me demo one on my land. If the stability were that much better, I might be willing to give up some hydraulic power (no big deal) and the position control (really big deal), but I would have to be absolutely sure that the safety improvement outweighed what I am sure would be some loss of capability.

 

[glennmac]

Click, click, click. The ratchet must stop. The die must be cast. The Rubicon must be crossed.

I am the king of vacillation. I have read and re-read all your posts, and I truly appreciate all the advice and encouragement I have gotten about whether I should trade the BX and what I should replace it with. I was at the dealer after hours in the dark and rain last night with my headlights shining on the line of B's and Grand L's, with me climbing on and off wet tractors for the nth time.

It is now time to shut off this computer, go downstairs, put the BX in my shirt pocket and order my replacement machine from my patient dealer, or tell him I'm keeping it. I am not going to say what I am planning to do. Mainly so I can preserve my freedom to change my mind six more times on the four mile drive to the dealer.

You may have noticed that shortly before I started this Depression topic, I started one called the Guiness Machine, asking about the biggest tractor in the world. On the other hand, I have grown very fond of my cute little BX. I even park it on my front lawn outside my bedroom window so I can look at it day and night. There it is out there right now. I will miss it. Maybe ...

Click, click, cli ...