portable water pumps..

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

i have a few small fields (~ 2a) that need irrigation. i have water on-site in the form of a dug well and a spring. both sources are clean, silt free and clear of any debris.. the original farmers created an elaborate granite-lined dug well, and setup a nice foundation around the spring.

i'm looking into a gas powered pump that can pull water and distribute (as far as 200 ft) the water to a tower sprinkler unit.

anyone have any advice? i'm looking at a honda portable water pump, they come in a number of sizes based on the water output i need to achieve.

also, any i need to know about hooking up such a system?

thx in advance
pf

bczoom · Apr 21, 2005

( i'm looking into a gas powered pump that can pull water and distribute (as far as 200 ft) the water to a tower sprinkler unit.)

PF,

How much elevation is there from the well to the top of the water tower?

Brian

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

How much elevation is there from the well to the top of the water tower?


the dug well is approx. 15 ft. above the tower (it's up a slight hill and is above the sprayer point).

the spring is approx. 15 ft. below the tower (down an embankment)..

pf

bczoom · Apr 21, 2005

Sorry, but I missed something in those measurements.

For the well, are you saying the water level is 15' above the tower or just the top of the well shaft? If the latter, how far below the top of the tower is the water level?

For the spring, you're saying you'll need to pump up 15' of elevation, correct?

What is the capacity of this tower?

Brian

PS, I'll throw out my next questions now as well.

Are you thinking of pumping to the tower then removing all the hose or pipe from the well to the tower or will the hose/pipe remain for the season (or whole year)?

How many gallons per day/week or whatever do you need to pump to the tower?

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

i should clear up my confusion - the 'tower' is nothing more than a raised sprinkler system. it's basically a metal structure that has a sprinkler head on top (i know these things have a name.. shows my ignorance of farming!)

 For the well, are you saying the water level is 15' above the tower or just the top of the well shaft? If the latter, how far below the top of the tower is the water level?


the water level in the well is about 15ft higher than the highest point on the sprinker head.

 For the spring, you're saying you'll need to pump up 15' of elevation, correct?


yes - the water level in the spring is about 15 ft lower than the height on the sprinker.

Are you thinking of pumping to the tower then removing all the hose or pipe from the well to the tower or will the hose/pipe remain for the season (or whole year)? 

i'll likely leave it in place for the season, removing in winter.

 How many gallons per day/week or whatever do you need to pump to the tower? 

excellent question. not entirely sure.. it's only to supplement rainfall, but i'm guessing that at the minimum it will need to pump 500+ gallons/week.

i'm attaching a somewhat useless map..

thanks again!

bczoom · Apr 21, 2005

OK, I think I have most of it now. I was trying to figure out what kind of head you needed.

That was the easy part /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You mentioned 2 acres. Based on your original post, it sounds like the tower can spit out and cover that entire area.

On the tower, do you know how many GPM you can push through it?

Here's the issues I'm trying to figure out.

Most pumps are designed to "de-water" an area. It pumps water out as fast as it can.

Your intent is to "water" an area.

If you don't match the output capacity of the pump to all the factors needed to water the area, the pump may get damaged (if you constrain its flow too much and build too much pressure).

I'm no hydro expert but what needs to be figured out is:
How many GPM's can the tower sprinkler push out?
What pressure is needed to reach the 200' distance from the tower?
Both of these need to be matched to the pumps. I did say pumps since you might need a different pump for each water source considering the difference in the head.

Let's use this pump just for an example.

Using the chart on the top right of the page, you can see how the head, pressure and GPM all come into play.

Actually, just below that graph is a link named "Pump Select (Performance Calculator). It's a download so I'll let you do it but it may answer many of the variables.

So, that's about the limit of my knowledge. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Do you have a way you can test what is needed for the tower now by connecting to a house water supply or something? If you have city water with a meter you may be able to test the flow and most plumbers have a gauge that can test pressure.

Brian

Highbeam · Apr 21, 2005

Oh yes, great fun. Need to know the pressure desired at the tower, the flow rate of the srpinkler, and the difference in elevation from the sprinkler head to the static water surface of the source be it well or spring.

Then we get to talk about pump curves and power required. This is like school again.

I have seen farmers using PTO mounted pumps to pull water from irrigation canals to feed irrigation systems.

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

Do you have a way you can test what is needed for the tower now by connecting to a house water supply or something?


good idea - yes, i can setup in the field behind the house using the house well. will do that..

excellent feedback - thanks very much guys. i know enough now to limit mistakes - but granted, i'll still find a way to destroy the learning curve.

pf

bczoom · Apr 21, 2005

( Oh yes, great fun. )

Yes it is fun... NOT. Lucky for me my neighbor is a geologist and specializes in groundwater remediation (cleaning up ground water around gas stations and stuff). He's figured it out for me in the past. Sorry PF, he just left on vacation for about a week.

( Then we get to talk about pump curves and power required. This is like school again. )

One step at a time...

I'm hoping (don't think) this part won't be that big of an issue and would be addressed using that calculator thingy on the link I provided.

But... now that I think about it, won't the path of the pipe/hose be a factor, particularily from the up-hill water source? If it's a straight line from the top of the well to the top of the tower vs. if it's a ground path that goes down to the base of the tower then goes vertically up the tower? Does the head change?

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

i think i found an easy way to determine the pump size, etc.

just spoke with my local dealer and provided all the info (lift, distance, etc.) he said that the easiest way to determine (from his perspective) was to call (in this case) honda directly to speak with their tech staff.

ironically, the honda website provides the info you need.

i need to do some exact measurements tonight to make sure i have all my distances, lift, elevation, etc. correct.

pf

bczoom · Apr 21, 2005

( good idea - yes, i can setup in the field behind the house using the house well. will do that..)

I assume there's a pressure gauge in the well setup but how will you be measuring GPM? Haven't done it in awhile but do you know how to adjust the pressure on the well? (you may need 70-80 psi or something to blow the water 200' as opposed to maybe 50-60 that you're currently set up for in the house).

BTW - Once you think you have it figured out, rent one the same size for a day and see if it actually works before buying one.

psuedofarmer · Apr 21, 2005

now that I think about it, won't the path of the pipe/hose be a factor, particularily from the up-hill water source? 

funny you should mention this - just got off the phone with my dealer (who spoke directly with honda on the prelim #s i was providing).

based on the #s i provided, honda does not make a pump powerful enough to bring the water up from the dug well with enough pressure to send it 200 ft and into the sprinkler unit.

when the water arrives, it won't have sufficient pressure to water a large enough area.

now looking @ holding tanks, or a professional irrigation system using the spring..

thanks again!

pf

Darren · Apr 21, 2005

Since the water level in the well is 15' above the sprinkler it should be simple to start a siphon and gravity feed the water to a soaker arrangement. As long as you don't have to lift the water more than 34', it will work. You won't have enough pressure to drive a sprinkler. But that's not necessarily bad because sprinkling wastes water.

have_blue · Apr 21, 2005

A 2" centrifugal pump with a 3hp gasoline engine will flood 2 acres in 30 minutes or less. No need for a sprinkler system. All you need is a flat-ish area or a few little ditches and dams to divert the water as needed. I got one at Sam's Club for $300, and love it. The achilles heel of centrufugal pumps is they are slow to prime. Once primed, they put out a huge volume of water.

Highbeam · Apr 22, 2005

I used a 6.5 Hp honda spinning a 3" centrifugal trash pump and it took a good while(several hours) to drain my pond (120 SF-4 feet deep). The outfall from the pump didn't flood anything but sure looked impressive. I would say that the water moved by a pump depends on more than just the HP of the pump and size of the connections. The pump curve for the particular impeller can be very different depending on application.

have_blue · Apr 22, 2005

( I used a 6.5 Hp honda spinning a 3" centrifugal trash pump and it took a good while(several hours) to drain my pond (120 SF-4 feet deep). The outfall from the pump didn't flood anything but sure looked impressive. I would say that the water moved by a pump depends on more than just the HP of the pump and size of the connections. The pump curve for the particular impeller can be very different depending on application. )

Mine would empty a pond that size in 20-30 minutes. It shoots with pretty high pressure. I have to be careful to not dig a big hole with the business end.