Portable Generators

[Pettrix]

Looking to get a portable gas generator, around 8,000 - 10,000 watt generator output. This will be to operate the well water pump during construction and some power tools. It will later be used as a backup power in case the main electric power goes out.

Been looking at Generac and Honda.

Generac XP8000E (clean power design for sensitive electronic equipment) - $2,400
NorthStar Honda - $2,300

Any other ideas, comments or recommendations?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have a Generac 17,500 KW that works real well for me. I have an emergency panel (100A) that feeds all but the 240V loads. They are on sale often. Somebody (not sure who) just had them for $2600. I paid 2700 at Home Depot using my 10% military discount. My electronic stuff works just fine on it.

Ron

 

[oosik]

I've always had Honda generators and they never have failed to start easily. Been here 34+ years and never had to use it during a power outage. I use the generator to run power tools when I'm out & about on the property.

We just happen to have an excellent electric co-op. Longest outage in 34 years has been 26 hours.

 

[Pettrix]

Are brushless generators more reliable?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Looking to get a portable gas generator, around 8,000 - 10,000 watt generator output.

Been looking at Generac and Honda.

Generac XP8000E (clean power design for sensitive electronic equipment) - $2,400
NorthStar Honda - $2,300

Any other ideas, comments or recommendations?

Is the North Star/Honda a REAL Honda genset, OR is it a North Star generator head with a Honda motor??

To me, there is a difference.

SR

 

[Gunny]

It's a North Star generator head powered by a Honda engine, but you're right, while it may have a good engine, I seriously doubt the generator head would be as good a quality as a Honda manufactured one.

 

[nikdfish]

We used a porter cable 5500 for years before it blew its' guts out (backside oil filler cap blew off & dumped all oil) a year or so back during an outage. We replaced it (same day) with a Champion 7000/9000 electric start dual fuel from Costco. Probably 30 - 50 hours on it so far & no problems (only run on gas so far, haven't done LP). During outages it has supported 1 freezer, 2 refrigerators, 1 fridge/freezer, well pump, heat pump water heater, micro-wave, coffee maker, overhead fans, TV/Dish/, computers, etc. It has been fine with the TrippLite UPS units we use (they see it as good power) and the wave form seen on a 'scope looks pretty clean to me. No problems for any equipment so far.

Regular price is $799, bought it while on sale ($200 off). Has the usual side connectors (one 240v 30A twist lock, 2 dual 120v GFCI outlets each w/20A breaker plus a 120v 30A L5-30R). Comes with a 25' 240v twist lock extension cord that terminates in 2 dual outlets, each with its own 20A circuit breaker, the hose/regulator needed for a propane tank connection, and a wall wart battery tender.

Nick

 

[newbury]

Looking to get a portable gas generator, around 8,000 - 10,000 watt generator output. This will be to operate the well water pump during construction and some power tools. It will later be used as a backup power in case the main electric power goes out.

Been looking at Generac and Honda.

Generac XP8000E (clean power design for sensitive electronic equipment) - $2,400
NorthStar Honda - $2,300

Any other ideas, comments or recommendations?

We've had good luck with the DuroMax 10000Watt which often sells for < $700.
Sodo had a thread on it in Welding about a year ago.

If you can get three for the price of the ones you mentioned you would have two backups

 

[dodge man]

I can't remeber what I paid for mine its something like a 6500 running watts and 8000 surge. It was less than a $1000. Its not going to have the clean power a high quality one will have but do you really need clean power to run sensitive stuff?

 

[jeff9366]

Have you considered a tractor PTO powered generator?

LINK TO TBN ARCHIVE: tractor pto generator site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

 

[CADplans]

I have a "generator" like this one,,,

Miller Bobcat 225g Welder Generator Propane Engine 8 Watt Generator | eBay

I use it more for welding than generating,,, the one I have has a 10K continuous generator built in.

It laughs at welding 1/2" bulldozer blade.

I mounted it on an old boat trailer,, I can pull it around the property,,, or down the road!! :thumbsup:

 

[grsthegreat]

Be real carefull of those chinese cra*shoot units. During our last 5 day power outage, i went on 3 calls to look at issues with portable gens powering house panels. All 3 had professional installed transfer switches to lock out mains. The issue with all 3 was i would get 240 with meter hooked to the gens 30 amp outlets, but if you apply the house loads to generator suddenly id get voltages like 207 volts on one leg and 33 volts on other. Not really sure what causes this in generator, but they fried lots of tv, refers, freezers snd gas furnace fans.

All 3 were different off brands, and all three were chinese units. I heard from a local electronics shop that last year was his best year ever repairing circuit boards.....he loves power outages and portable gens.

 

[robstaples]

Grsthegreat, you described the condition that I did. I'm embarrassed to say as a EEng working for a elect utility , I connected 2 wires of a 240 v gen and the ground and thought the neutral and ground would be the same. I fired up the gen and anctious to try it out, transferred load. The overhead light was strangely dim. And my fancy stereo power distributer blew up in another room. Fortunately, I didn't test long and found my error.
I would suggest that the 30 amp plug has no neutral in it and so the voltage splits between the current load of the two sides of the panel.. rarely balanced. Or wired wrong and no neutral used. By design, 240 v loads don't use neutral. But the generators put out 120 v so they have 120 v windings. Two windings in series make 240 volts. But for panel feed, you need to connect to the center point of two windings which is called the neutral. My ground was just the chassis / frame connection and not in the generator circuit, so to speak. I had an expensive lesson, but it could have been WAY worse!

 

[grsthegreat]

Grsthegreat, you described the condition that I did. I'm embarrassed to say as a EEng working for a elect utility , I connected 2 wires of a 240 v gen and the ground and thought the neutral and ground would be the same. I fired up the gen and anctious to try it out, transferred load. The overhead light was strangely dim. And my fancy stereo power distributer blew up in another room. Fortunately, I didn't test long and found my error.
I would suggest that the 30 amp plug has no neutral in it and so the voltage splits between the current load of the two sides of the panel.. rarely balanced. Or wired wrong and no neutral used. By design, 240 v loads don't use neutral. But the generators put out 120 v so they have 120 v windings. Two windings in series make 240 volts. But for panel feed, you need to connect to the center point of two mwindings which is called the neutral. My ground was just the chassis / frame connection and not in the generator circuit, so to speak. I had an expensive lesson, but it could have been WAY worse!

Well i checked the plugs on all ends including the cords. All neutrals present. It had to be in the way the windings in the generator were tapped. I cant think of any other answer.

 

[CobyRupert]

Be real carefull of those chinese cra*shoot units. During our last 5 day power outage, i went on 3 calls to look at issues with portable gens powering house panels. All 3 had professional installed transfer switches to lock out mains. The issue with all 3 was i would get 240 with meter hooked to the gens 30 amp outlets, but if you apply the house loads to generator suddenly id get voltages like 207 volts on one leg and 33 volts on other. Not really sure what causes this in generator, but they fried lots of tv, refers, freezers snd gas furnace fans.

All 3 were different off brands, and all three were chinese units. I heard from a local electronics shop that last year was his best year ever repairing circuit boards.....he loves power outages and portable gens.

You could just go around those houses and turn off loads on phase L1 or turn on loads on phase L2 until the load through each phase was equal (120V + 120V= 240V)

You service generators?
There's nothing magical about Chinese generators. So, what causes this:
Hint #1: The 207V in one leg and 33 volts in the other leg shows the generator is putting out (207V + 33V=) 240 Volts just like it's suppose to.
Hint #2: If you measured the voltage across the busses L1 & L2 (or the output of double pole breakers) in those panels, they would still read 240V. But, you measured the 207V between L1 and neutral (or maybe ground), and 33V between L2 and neutral....hmmm... getting closer....

Basically: If you think of the generator as having a 240V winding ( or 2- 120V windings connected in series), the center point of these windings has to be "neutral" (i.e. connected (locked down) to O volts, the earth,) Usually this means bonding the winding's center tap neutral connection with the ground, or using a 4 prong connection so that this neutral-ground bond, which also exists in the service panelboard, is used; so that the 240volts produced by the generator is forced to divide evenly (120V + 120V) across these two equal windings.
Without the neutral connection dividing the 240V equally and "locking in" 120V to neutral in each leg, the panelboard consists of all the turned on "120V" loads on panel phase L1 being connected in series with all the turned on phase L2 loads; and 240V being supplied to this circuit.

You have a "floating neutral" situation.

Here's a decent illustration that shows a broken neutral connection (in reality, there's many more loads in parallel with each other on phase L1, and many more loads parallel with each other on L2). Also imagine the generator's windings where they show "120V" or "240" source.
The important point is that without a neutral connection to the source locking in 120V in each leg and providing a return path for single phase currents (for 120V loads) to return to the opposite side of the 120V winding: there's 240V being split across the 10 watt light and the 120 watt tv that are now in series with each other without a neutral. The 240V will not divide evenly into 120V and 120V across the unbalanced loads.

 

[CobyRupert]

Well i checked the plugs on all ends including the cords. All neutrals present. It had to be in the way the windings in the generator were tapped. I cant think of any other answer.

Short answer: Bond the generator's neutral with the panel's.

 

[grsthegreat]

Short answer: Bond the generator's neutral with the panel's.

tried it, no difference.
The problem is internal to the generator windings. I dont and wont service chinese crap. Ive torn into a few kohler and generac alternators and there quality pieces of equipment.

I service generators, but i dont rebuild engines and alternators. These generators are not required to be connected to outside ground rods(no portables are, and now no permenant generator is supposed to be separately grounded per NEC).

 

[robstaples]

A single 240 volt winding would explain those symtoms. And true 240 v load, like England has, the gen would work just fine. Good thing to know before purchasing a portable for US system. You could make it work with a 240v center tapped transformer, but that require salvage prices to economically justify.

 

[Pettrix]

So Generac are decent generators? Even though they are NOT brushless generators?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

So Generac are decent generators? Even though they are NOT brushless generators?

Generac's are vulnerable to Gasahol, carbs will corrode. I solved the problem by using Staybil 360 Marine additive. Mine (17.5 KW) has worked fine for 18 months now after making the fuel change. It has no adverse effect on our motors and electronic gear. Their guarantee states that the warranty is void if Gasahol is used. Their manual states you have to drain all fuel after each use. Holds 15 GL in the tank so you figure. I now never drain the fuel.

Ron

Ron