pond building

[Homeboy]

Our stream has been destroyed by flash floods last fall, and in clearing debris I'd like to incorporate a natural pond that the stream flow straight through (e.g.: no walls/damns).

The materials I have found focus more on ponds with dams and ponds built in the middle of fields.

The stream drops about 1 foot every 20 feet, and it is about a 30 foot area I am considering. We have good water flow from a natural spring (the streams source) year round, so that won't be an issue.

My thought is to ecavate and screen soil to 12" below the depth of the lowest point (downhill stream), or ~ 30" at the deepest point. I would then use larger rocks to build up the banks at the curves and put soil and native plants over them, then put mid size rocks back down. Then I was going to put some soil back in, and then finally cover the bed with the smaller pebbles. I'd also work in some larger stones to the bed for aesthetics and habitat. The goal is to keep the pond relatively clear and 6" - 24" deep while providing a lot of natural habitat for critters.

I'd also put in a downstream screen to catch runoff during construction, and upstream some kind of rock break to reduce impact during storms.

What does the group think? Anyone done a project like this or can point me to proper resources?

thanks /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[froggy]

You might want to check out the following sites for the information you are looking for:

http://www.countrybynet.com/

http://www.thepondguy.com/

http://www.pondboss.com/

 

[fishman]

In many cases, well meaning people get in streambeds, push stuff around, and pull stuff out. Not only is this often illegal, it also is likely a bad idea.

There are many ways to stabilize stream banks that are legal and work well. Revetments of hardwood or cedar, willow stake plantings, and rip-rap are all commonly used. You can also use earth anchors to place rootwads, causing scour and creating deeper holes. Your state DNR may have folks that can come help you with your problem and perhaps even cost-share. I know, I know, many will tell you to keep the government out of it or you'll regret it. However, if you alter the stream to such a degree that it causes damage/erosion to land-owners downstream, litigation might ensue. And trust me, there are plenty of experts that will be able to accurately explain exactly how your project caused the problem.

I don't want to be a downer on your project. The point I'm trying to make is that in my opinion, the first place to start would be your local stream/fisheries biologist. They will help keep you out of trouble, whis is where I think you are heading without guidance.

 

[Unclebuck257]

Man, did fishman just say a mouthful!! I was about to post the exact same thing to you when I read his post. Were you to interfere with the natural flow of that stream, you might wish you'd never been born with all the trouble you could get into, legally and then financially!!

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> We have good water flow from a natural spring (the streams source) year round, so that won't be an issue. </font>

Is this a stream, or just a ditch that your spring flows in before it reaches a real stream?

I have seen one spring fed stream here in Western PA once. I was amazed at the flow that just came out of the ground and started a creek RIGHT NOW. Is this what you have? I'm probably talking about 500 to 1000 gallons per minute flow...

There is a ditch that my spring flowed through, eroded over time and carrying about 5 GPM or a little more at the highest flow rate...I would not call that a stream...I diverted that spring flow to my pond years ago. THe overflow of the pond ends up feeding the ditch that the spring ditch fed, which eventually ends up feeding a creek...

Just wondering what you actually have. Kind of like "It's a lake if you are sellling and a pond if you are buying..."

Is it a stream or a ditch carrying some spring water?

 

[Homeboy]

Thanks for the good advice ... and the weblinks

... I am planning to draw permits, but I need to learn the how-to's first as I want to do the project myself (maybe I'll change my mind once I learn more). While I could hire a pond company they are really expensive around here, and I'd rather learn how to do it myself. I haven't investigated the permit process yet and I may find I need a licensed company to at least oversee or execute the work, but even if I end up doing that, I've learned that I get better work and prices from contractors when I understand in detail what needs to be done.

I did have the local conservency group (who does most of the public stream rebuilding in this area, and who we know well)here to discuss the storm damage, and they are the ones who suggested using either boulders or wire-encased rocks to bolster the banks at the curves, then growing native plants over them. I discussed the stream-pond in loose terms with them, but since at that time I didn't think I'd do it myself I didn't get into it further.

Thanks again for the good advice - time for some reading ...

 

[Homeboy]

it is definitely a stream, not a ditch - I have not measured the flow rate (yet), but I'd estimate it is about 10 gallons/second at this time of year because the stream averages 5 feet wide and each foot has about 2 gallons/second go by. During the summer it does slow, but not by more then 1/3 - 1/2.

The is a waterfall that was created by the floods (eroded the downstream section) which is dropping 3-4 gallons/second (e.g.: put a bucket under it and it fills almost instantly), and it is not the only path the water is taking, so I'm pretty comfortable with the 10 gallon number...for now...

 

[Tim_in_IA]

If you are getting that good of a consitant flow I would check out microhydro power. You wont have an electric bill when your done.

This is one of the first sites I found.. I am sure there are better places to look. Definitely consider this when designing your pond.

http://www.absak.com/alternative-energy/hydro-power.html

 

[penokee]

Homeboy - Sounds like a fun project. I've built 4 ponds, one with a permit and 3 without. No one wants to knowingly cause erosion, etc., or do anything that would degrade the water quality. My largest pond has actually added one acre of wetlands, with Mallards currently nesting on it. It was a little disheartening at times, getting permit, paying fees even though no local officials would come out to check. I kept telling myself it was all for the Ducks - not sure I'd go through that process again. Had to get a State Permit, which was ok; they approved plans and made final inspection. Had to pay the county $100 and couldn't get anyone out to the site - they just wanted the money. Had to get a permit for an approach off state highway, even though old approach had been there for +50 years and had to get a County cutting permit before I could cut my own trees on my own land (pond area) - but had to keep reminding myself it was all so Ducks could do their reproductive thing. Government, even though well intentioned, can get a little repressive at times.
I did a few small ponds along the line you are thinking - used rock rip-rap, call them my Rock Roller Dams. No problem with them for over 30 years, but didn't disturb the banks in anyway when hand placing the rock.
Attaching a few pictures - you can see the rock in some, others are under water during spring runoff.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[penokee]

Another pic

 

[penokee]

This Rock Dam is approx. 50 feet downstream from first one.

 

[penokee]

another pic - high water - note where rapids start - location of rock dam.

 

[penokee]

Thought I'post a pic of the "Duck Pond" I built - hope to see "Little Duckies" shortly.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[penokee]

One more pond - this one spring fed, plan to stock with rainbows so grandkids can catch a few.

Now that I'm "Ponded out", promise not to post any more pictures of ponds.

penokee /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Homeboy]

very interesting Penoke, thanks - your picture with the downstream rock dam actually looks a lot like my situation, though you have more water volume ...

... I found a local env eng. who worked for a neighbor and who is going to come out and take a look ... more to come ...

 

[JTS1]

For ducks and geese, I was told once by someone, so fox and "Kiots" don't get them you build them a small island in the middle of the pond.

 

[dooleysm]

Depending on where you are, that island may or may not help. My wife had some ducks on the family pond when she was little. Coyotes, dogs, etc, would chase them into the pond, where they would happily take refuge. Then it got cold outside, then the pond froze, then the coyotes chased the ducks into the pond. Then they walked out after them and ate them.

 

[JTS1]

That must be where the old "fly south for the winter and not be somebodys dinner" came from /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[have_blue]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( That must be where the old "fly south for the winter and not be somebodys dinner" came from /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )</font>

No, no that doesn't work either. We wait for them to fly down here every winter. Duck and goose really add to the flavor of a gumbo!

I am liking that island idea though, as I will need some ducks to control duckweed. We have plenty of coyotes around here and a few criminal dogs.

 

[Homeboy]

The pond I have in mind is really too small to handle ducks (not that they won't invite themselves in), and too close to the house - I wouldn't want their waste by the front door ... I do want fish and need to find out if it is okay to have Koi in a pond that is directly part of a stream (because their spawn would infect the river) - the Eco guy is supposed to come by next week, so I'll know soon enough ...

homeboy