Pole Barn Advice

[jimmysisson]

Eddie, I have to disagree in our climate at least. We have expansive clay soils in many places here, which hold moisture for a long time. We also have a 4' deep frost-protection in our building code, properly so. We've built lots of garages over the years, with slabs poured on compacted gravel. The early ones, with no poly under the slab, do seem to get damp (concrete) in spring and fall, when condensation is not a factor. They get WET in the summer, when we have high humidity and 80's-90's.
Later, we put poly under them and cut down on spring-fall dampness, but no change in summer sweating. Now, I recommend an inch of XPS foam directly under the slab, no poly. The foam isolates the concrete from ground temperature, and cuts any wicking. These slabs stay pretty dry year-round, even in the humid mid-summer. Different climates will likely act different.
I'm with Eddie on the pour-it-now bandwagon. The thought of putting all your tools, supplies, and busted vehicles out in the rain for a week while you're pouring the slab 4 years later will just stop you from ever doing so.
Jim

 

[wedge40]

If you were going to build a barn in stages, would you pour the cement first and then build the barn? I know you would have the added expense of footers but I guess getting it out of the way first would better.

Wedge

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If you were going to build a barn in stages, would you pour the cement first and then build the barn? I know you would have the added expense of footers but I guess getting it out of the way first would better.

Wedge

It depends on the type of barn you want to build. If you are building a pole barn you just put up the barn and you can park your equipment inside and have them protected from the elements and thieves. If you pour a slab then you will be parking your equipment out in the open on the slab until you start building the barn. Being that it is a slab already you will most likely build a stick frame building. Both ways work but if money is an issue then put the barn up now and you have what you need and the rest is a luxury for when you can afford it.

 

[AlanB]

I am having the same debate at the moment, and hope that by late summer I have come to a conclusion.

My best current thoughts, as I agree with what Eddie says about never getting around too it after I start using it, was to build smaller,,, Then I realize I always want it bigger, right now, current thought is

40 X 60 pole barn construction, posts poured in concrete (to be fixed in 20 years if they rot ughhh) metal truss's, with 4:12 pitch on 12' centers.

Then go in and pour half.

Then build a heated and AC'd 12 X 15 or so shop inside with double doors to work on motorcycles and components.

The reality for us is I want the mowers, tractors etc inside and sheltered, but they do not really need to be on concrete.

I worry things to death, and at 11:38 today that is my firm decision

 

[ssuesens]

Photo's Below
Thanks for a great amount of information, opinion, and wisdom. Here's an update:

Bought the 30x40 pole barn package from southerlands for $4100 with a few design changes in mind. On the narrow end I added a 16 x 30 loafing shed for livestock, and on the opposite end a 10 x 30 covered shed for parking the tractor and implements. My initial question was what to do about the floor. Budget didn't allow me to pour a slab right now. I left the floor dirt and will tackle that later. I plan to insulate with 1" rigid foam and then place three quarter OSB over that.

My new question is "What's the one thing you wish you would have done (or glad that you did)when building your shop/barn?"

Thanks

 

[6sunset6]

I built 32 x 64 x 12' H one thing should have pipes in floor for radient heat . Collectors on the roof with photovotaic pump. Keep it at 35-40d all by itself.
second thing steel roof I did shingles.
Good things
vapor barrier and foam under the concrete. 5 x 10 flats of wire
4 inches concrete did not do control cracks should have but did not really matter
6" insulation at the 12' ceiling and the walls. 4' drywall up the walls to cover the wiring.
in the gable end 10' w x 11'3" door 3 " thick with power opener. in the long wall facing south 10 patio glass replacement panels 30" by xx standing vertical starting 4 ' high
So building is dry , fairly lite up for walking in and finding things, insulation under the floor keeps the concrete from being a cold trap.
The windows all have broken glass sensors tied into an alarm system, Really big horn.
UMM I have seen the creek out of its banks 10' from the door once and 1 foot from the door once in 20 years. SO maybe 12 " higher. But then it is a barn.

ahh Picture tomorrow

 

[6sunset6]

pictures
Dragline bucket keeps people from hitting the corner of the barn.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

pictures
Dragline bucket keeps people from hitting the corner of the barn.

I like the bucket but was shocked at how many large windows you have in your barn. Do you even need a light bulb in there during the day

 

[6sunset6]

Those windows face 17d W of South which is sun south here. They are the only windows in the barn. Pretty much do not need lights during the day when the sun is shining. They are E glass which helps trap heat some.
It is nice to have all that light inside. I have a lath, mill ,drill press and surface frinder as well as my workbench along that wall. I sort of thought I could wall off that space maybe 8feet parallel to the window wall for a smaller winter workshop. Never got around to it. Just don't work out there when it is below 20d F. If I don't have to. I do have a double drum wood stove in there and a ceiling fan.
I can heat it up if I have to.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

All the windows we use now are are Low E with Argon. They are much nicer windows and are not that much more then standard windows.

 

[ssuesens]

That's a beautiful looking building. Any chance of some pictures of the inside?

 

[6sunset6]

I assume you mean me. I can get some tonight. But it's full of stuff.
I built it in 1989 and moved all my stuff from a barn where I used to live. I still have not put some of it away. Embarressing. I have 3 books full of construction pictures on film. I have to scan some other stuff soon so If I remember I will pick out some. The roof was built in sections on the ground and lifted in place with a crane. So two of us did the whole thing.

 

[6sunset6]

Inside shots Dragline probably does not run 4 cyl Murphy resleeved when I got it. You can see the ceiling big trusses on 8' centers built the trusses on site per Cornell Ag plans. joists and perlons dropped into hangers.
So on the ground a two truss assembly build complete with plywood . I did not lap the plywood . Picked it up and put it on top of the framed walls. Then put the next one 8' away and dropped in all the perlons and joists in between. Lifted all the plywood up on a skid with the crane. So two of us build the whole roof , one section a weekend in the winter. The ceiling insulation is the same stuff used in tennis courts . 4' wide as long as you want it 6" insulation. Rolled out 16 rolls over the perlons and I was done.
Lights are high intensity cold start . No flicker or warm up for those guys.
Any one want more detail just ask

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Did you use the dragline as a crane to set the trusses?

I like old draglines and the one gravel yard has a nice one they still use to dig out the gravel. They are making a nice lake over there in Sinclairville with it

 

[6sunset6]

yes I did but the brake and clutch drums did not work well under load. But the boom drive worked great . I used the clutch and brake to position the hook and then used the boom lift to get it all up. Of course it threw a tread at the beginning so I did it all with out moving the machine. Picked up a truss assembly swung it onto the walls and then used two comealongs to pull it down the wall into position.
The tread took me 8 months to get back on. I kept jacking all the support timbers into the ground. I finally had to buy some steel plates 3/4 x 24 x 24. they worked great. Still have them waiting for a project.

 

[weldingisfun]

Thank you 6sunset6. You provided the perfect example to illustrate why I always advise folks who are getting ready to build a barn to make it bigger once they have decided what size they think they need.

All you folks getting ready to build a pole barn, look at this picture and then make it bigger!

Gee, I wish I had taken my own advise. Twice!

 

[LBrown59]

1*Ifin I had it to do over I would have went 30 x 56 instead of
30x52.
I'm thing about adding 50 feet to the end of my 22x76 building.
2*Sounds more like an OWT than factual to me.

== L B ==

SIR,
1*i suggest you build larger, because it will fill up
quickly.
i do not know much about the sprayed in insulation, but
2*i have been
told if there is fire, you only have a few seconds to get
out of the building, before the fumes kill you.

 

[jimmysisson]

Back to the foundation/posts fer a minute. You don't need a frost wall, even in our fairly cold neck of the woods. Dig holes for your posts (I like PT 6x6s) pour concrete footers in the bottom. Set the posts, braced, and backfill with bank run gravel. Don't pour concrete around the posts. Then, PT 2x10s spiked onto the outside of the posts with the tops at slab height.
From there in, place a foot to 18" of porous gravel on undisturbed soil and 3-4 inches of washed stone on top of that, staying X inches below your final floor height. Add perimeter drains if necessary.
I like to keep the slab several inches above the rest of the grade around the building, so there's no chance of water inside. One inch xps foam and a 5-6" slab on top with wire, and with radiant if you're able. Run the foam out flat at the door cutouts a foot or two. You can fasten the siding to the perimeter 2x10.
Even though these buildings have no perimeter foundation, the gravel (and the foam) keeps the frost from pushing the slab, at least on the several we've built.
Jim

 

[turbopiper]

Thank you 6sunset6. You provided the perfect example to illustrate why I always advise folks who are getting ready to build a barn to make it bigger once they have decided what size they think they need.

All you folks getting ready to build a pole barn, look at this picture and then make it bigger!

Gee, I wish I had taken my own advise. Twice!

I thought the same thing as I looked at the picture showing the inside. He did say he hasn't gotten around to organizing... yet.
I'm in the process of thinking out a 30x50 building, but when I look at all th building plans with all those huge trusses, I think of most of that space wasted. Granted I can probably reclaim some of that space, but I wanted all of that space I could get. I even went as far as drawing out my own trusses to utilize a second floor.

When I look up at my building that's 20 plus feet to the peak I want to use it all. This is wasted space up here.

I'm not exactly a cheap "bastich" but I look at all that space as storage. For most of the shelves like 6sunset6 has, which looks like he has access from both sides, I would put all the non bulky items upstairs.

I was planning on collecting the material for the trusses until I found this website, and I like their system better because I figured out the materials cost was less on the budget going their route. And it would be easier to erect, especially as I might have to do most of the work myself. Now I have to figure out if I want a gable or gambrel style roof. Right now I'm leaning towards gambrel to utilize all of that upper space. Which comes out to be 13 foot ceiling 1st floor 8 foot 2nd.

I'm also in the situation of whether to just pour a post and beam footing now and the rest of the slab later. Just getting a concrete company to have 3 trucks drive out to the country is gonna cost $$$.

One particular thing that caught my eye in 6sunset6's barn was the chain hoist I-beam..... NICE

Ted

 

[6sunset6]

uuuhhh The rear bay has a second floor and the is a deck on top of the trusses. with lights. My air compressor is up there as well as the tanks
That why there are vents over the big door. I do have stuff up there but not enough. Just too much stuff. Then my parents passed away and I got their stuff. I feel bad about my kids when it is their turn. And I got heavy stuff.