Over-using glow plugs?

[chelydra]

My CK20HST has about 275 hours. Starting seems to be getting a little harder, though it might just be weather and less-frequent use. To avoid half a minute of blue smoke, or high speed when cold, I usually blip the glow plus for a few extra seconds after it catches.

According to posts here, this seems to be common practice. However, I'm concerned about glow-plug life. So, some questions:

- How much is a new set, if needed?

- Is it an easy screw out/screw in job?

- I don't have a torque wrench; is this a more critical torquing than spark plugs in a car? I'd certainly rather buy a torque wrench than a new engine block!

- What's a reasonable plug lifetime, in total starts, engine hours, years of use, whatever? If it's under 1000 hours or so, it might be worth keeping a spare set in reserve.

All advice appreciated. First major storm due here tomorrow, so tooth-bar came off the loader and mushroom skids are on. Someday I'll have the spare cash for a blower, or at least a rear snow blade.

Happy holidays to all-

Chelydra

 

[Coyote machine]

In general glow plugs should last a long time. How long is a factor of how many times used, temps they are exposed to, condition of the electrical system, in particular the battery, etc. Personally I wouldn't buy spares in advance of needing one or more. Glow plug relays can fail too, and one never knows what is most likely to happen- so I'd save your money for when and IF they are needed, if ever

An aside: you mentioned 'mushroom skids' are you talking about what is commonly used on snowplow blades?
if so where did you get yours/ Pics?
How well do they work for your tractor?
Do they eliminate some of the concerns of hitting immovable things with the loader edge?
Thanks,
CM:thumbsup:

 

[chelydra]

... you mentioned 'mushroom skids' are you talking about what is commonly used on snowplow blades?
if so where did you get yours/ Pics?
How well do they work for your tractor?
Do they eliminate some of the concerns of hitting immovable things with the loader edge?

Thanks for advice on glow plugs. I'm thinking that shutting the machine down when I'm taking a break may not be such a good idea, at least if it's sitting someplace I wouldn't want to leave it for a couple of weeks if a plug failed and I couldn't restart. Or is compression heating enough to make a complete start with just two "hot" plugs?

Anyway, here are pictures of the skids. I think I bought these:

FREE SHIPPING SnowBear Skid Shoes (Pair) 5in. Dia. | Snowplow Replacement Parts | Northern Tool + Equipment

though not sure. I *am* sure I only paid about half that a couple of years ago, so perhaps they were on sale someplace.

To mount them, I used a Greenfield punch to expand the outer two tooth-bar mounting holes. You can see the high-class wood shim I use to keep them square. I shortened the threaded stub; kept enough for two nuts just in case. I'm surprised at how quickly the pads are eroding - looks like this third season might be the last. (Note separation line in one photo.) I suspect that they're made out of ordinary steel, not the self-hardening stuff used for prison bars and sandblasting boxes, or the alloys used for excavator teeth. Disappointing.

While they last, they do the job well, letting me use a slight dig angle on the blade without diving into dirt/gravel, or scraping blacktop. Frankly, though, the loader blade is not very good for snow; if I were feeling richer, I'd get a proper rear plow blade for the TPH, and use the loader mainly for the icy berms the town plows leave.

A slightly related question: the manual says something about not letting the blade drop in float position, instead to force it down. Since I usually put the blade back into float for the next clearing run after dumping a load of snow, this is awkward. What is the issue with letting the blade drop naturally in float setting?

Thanks-

Chelydra

 

[PoorMansCat]

My CK20HST has about 275 hours. Starting seems to be getting a little harder, though it might just be weather and less-frequent use. To avoid half a minute of blue smoke, or high speed when cold, I usually blip the glow plus for a few extra seconds after it catches.

According to posts here, this seems to be common practice. However, I'm concerned about glow-plug life. So, some questions:

- How much is a new set, if needed?

- Is it an easy screw out/screw in job?

- I don't have a torque wrench; is this a more critical torquing than spark plugs in a car? I'd certainly rather buy a torque wrench than a new engine block!

- What's a reasonable plug lifetime, in total starts, engine hours, years of use, whatever? If it's under 1000 hours or so, it might be worth keeping a spare set in reserve.

All advice appreciated. First major storm due here tomorrow, so tooth-bar came off the loader and mushroom skids are on. Someday I'll have the spare cash for a blower, or at least a rear snow blade.

Happy holidays to all-

Chelydra

Glow plugs are usually cheap... For a Ford 7.3L Powerstroke, they are about 10-11 each. They simply unscrew and pull, then screw back in. Don't overtorque...
IF they are heavily carboned up and don't want to come out, DONT force them... Spray some penetrating oil down around them and let them set for a day or so...
One thing you DON'T want to to is break off the end of the glowplug...
They can be checked by using a VOM. I think they vary
by manufacturer, but generally they ohm at 10ohms or less if they are good.
Some Ford PSD owners have reported that repetitive cycling of the glowplugs leads to short service life.... not sure if its true, don't own a PSD.

 

[tthopskin@yahoo.ca]

you said high speed on a cold motor this may be some of your problem never run up a cold motor and have you used fuel conditioner if no there is another problem just put some tranny oil in the fuel it will start and run better it works for me 20 plus years the fuel is refined to much anymore no lubricant left in it :thumbsup:

 

[chelydra]

you said high speed on a cold motor this may be some of your problem never run up a cold motor

Oh, I agree, I agree. I said that I *avoid* that. I've seen other operators rev a diesel on starting, which seems like bad treatment for a lot of reasons: carbon buildup, cold oil not yet spread into bearing, ring blowby, and even head cracking from thermal shock. I used to fly light aircraft, where warmup and cooldown are strictly prescribed on the checklist, and I always idle the CK20 for a minute or two before shutdown.

I usually start with the throttle set for about 1000-1200 RPM, then ease it up to 1500 about half a minute after all cylinders are firing. But that can take 15-30 seconds after the engine catches, and I don't like all the blue smoke and rough running. So I blip the glow plugs for just 2 sec or so once or twice, which always gets it running smoothly.

If any of that is bad practice, I'd like to know about it. This is my first diesel, and advice on keeping it happy is welcome.

-Chelydra

 

[DK35vince]

My CK20HST has about 275 hours. Starting seems to be getting a little harder, though it might just be weather and less-frequent use. To avoid half a minute of blue smoke, or high speed when cold, I usually blip the glow plus for a few extra seconds after it catches.

According to posts here, this seems to be common practice. However, I'm concerned about glow-plug life. So, some questions:

- How much is a new set, if needed?

- Is it an easy screw out/screw in job?

- I don't have a torque wrench; is this a more critical torquing than spark plugs in a car? I'd certainly rather buy a torque wrench than a new engine block!

- What's a reasonable plug lifetime, in total starts, engine hours, years of use, whatever? If it's under 1000 hours or so, it might be worth keeping a spare set in reserve.

All advice appreciated. First major storm due here tomorrow, so tooth-bar came off the loader and mushroom skids are on. Someday I'll have the spare cash for a blower, or at least a rear snow blade.

Happy holidays to all-

Chelydra

I just replaced the glow plugs in my DK 35 at 1500 hours because it didn't want to start in the cold lately.
I had power to the glow plugs, but it acted like the plugs were not working.
They are easy to replace (easy screw out/in job).
I replaced all 3 and cost was around $35 each.
My tractor starts right in the cold again now.

 

[ToadHill]

Rather than blip the glow plugs back on when the engine is running, I'd cycle them 2 or 3 times before I started the engine. This was the recommended procedure on an older vehicle I owned.

I've never had starting problems using that method down to below 0 degrees here in the great frozen north.

 

[Transit]

What oil are you using; 15w40 may be too heavy for your climate. Try a 10 or a 5 w 40.

 

[flyingcow]

Rather than blip the glow plugs back on when the engine is running, I'd cycle them 2 or 3 times before I started the engine. This was the recommended procedure on an older vehicle I owned.

I've never had starting problems using that method down to below 0 degrees here in the great frozen north.

+1

Also, how long since you changed your fuel filters?

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks for the link to the skids and the pics too.:thumbsup:
As far as running the tractor where you don't want to be stuck, I'd do it. Small amount of fuel vs. huge amount of hassle.
I believe it was Wallace who stated recently that his preference for tractors that need assistance with starting use an oil pan magnetic heater instead of a block or radiator hose heater. If you don't already have one and you store your toy outside, I might at least consider getting a pan heater to assist with cold weather starts.
Happy New Year to all!

 

[dourobob]

I believe it was Wallace who stated recently that his preference for tractors that need assistance with starting use an oil pan magnetic heater instead of a block or radiator hose heater.

Is that an accurate statement Rick?? I had heard (and read) block heaters are best but I am open to a magnetic if it does the job.

Bob

 

[Coyote machine]

I forgot to mention that the most likely reason to not drop the loader bucket/fel to the ground is possible damage/wear to the pins, etc. as a result of dropping it vs. lowering it and then pushing the joy stick all the way down to 'float' position.
There may be other reasons, but that one is good enough for me.

 

[jlsanborn]

I'd bet that the thinkin is that you'll slam the bucket on the ground. It seems funny, but I suppose if you had several hundred pounds in there it might drop pretty quick. An empty bucket falls pretty slow in float.
See my comments on the "cold starting bit" post. I would get the line heater. I had one on my old N and it was awesome. I've now got a 200W magnetic on my CK20S and it's only a slight improvement. It was convenient, but not what I had hoped for.

 

[gerard]

A couple of points. Only problem with pushing a heavy load in float, is when the bucket fill up, you can actually raise the front wheels off the ground. Getting them way up there and then dropping it hard can be tough on axels and isn't wise. If you have a light load or keep ease off if you feel the front start rising, you can use the float position.

Re starting - Get a block heater. I use mine religiously, only takes about 30 minutes to warm things up and it fires right up. You can tell it's warmed up which is better for the engine. Not sure which type of heater is better but the oil pan one only heats the oil at first and it will take a while for the heat to rise all the way up to the engine block. When starting, the only thing you care about being hot is the combustion chamber so getting that area warmed up appears to be best. Also never liked the idea of the magentics on the bottom of the oil pan. Between bushes, high snow et al, they don't seem like they would stay there but I could be wrong on that never having used one.

As far as shutting down vs leaving running. In winter if I'm going to use it again within 10 minutes, I usually just leave it idling. Summer I don't mind shutting her down because the engine stays warm for quite awhile and it's an easy start. Even in 30 deg weather, it still stays pretty warm for a while after shutting down and she starts right back up, usually don't even use the glowplugs in this case.

Bottom line is you can start without a block heater but why would you want to? They don't cost much, work well, and make starting easier on your engine, starter, battery, and get you warmed up to operating temperature a lot faster. Seems like a no brainer to me! (Unless you live in fl or tx, then I take back my post!)

 

[JoelD]

I turn glow plugs on imediately after start in cold
Smooths engine out quickly

Joel

 

[jlsanborn]

Agreed on the float statement. I was thinking about setting the bucket down, not digging it in and vaulting the front of the tractor over it. That could really put some wear on things. You just have to be cautious of speed, objects and bucket angle when floating.

The Katz magnetic heater I got is one that you remove before use. It's got kind of a frying pan handle thing. Bottom line is that it sucks for my application. There's not really a space on the pan that is large enough to make 100% surface contact, but it's close. The edge of the heater hangs off the corner of the pan by about 1/4". Overall, the heater surface is probably 2"x3". The real problem is that it just dosen't conduct enough heat to warm the whole engine. The pan itself is noticably warmer, but the upper part of the engine remains stone cold. This is during 0 to +20F ambient temp.

I can't turn the glow plugs back on. The "pre-heat" position is the same as "run". If I click the ignition switch back one position from "run" it shuts the engine down. I've heard a few people talking of this technique. There must have been a revision somewhere along the line.

 

[grsthegreat]

just a quick question to you all. i have a block heater in my old JD870 and i ordered my new DK45SE HST with a lower radiator heater. how come not many of you use these heaters? are they hard on the tractor??? I have mine on timers set to turn on a few hours before i ever plan on using my tractor in both the AM and PM winter time only. I have used this in the JD for 14 years....i NEVER have to use the glow plugs. the thing just fires up without any smoke. are these hard on engines??? i figure a few hours couldnt hurt. i also bought a magnetic 300 watt heater to clip and strap on the transmission case to try and help keep the HST fluid warmer for easier startups. i figured all this should help the tractor last longer. any opinions?? thanks

 

[Fred Barbour]

Just a quick note on cold weather starting. I have a Bobcat CT 235 (purchased in Canada, therefore, a block heater was already installed).

I found when plugging it in for about 2 hrs before use and when I went out to start it, the glow plug light would not come one. When I went to fire it up immediatly it would take about three revolutions before it started and when it did the engine ran fine, obviously warm.

I'm not an expert by any means but my thinking was the engine being warm fooled the system into thinking it was summer, therefore the glow plugs needed no warming,,,, does this make sense.

In any event, now after plugging the tractor in I use the manual glow plug proceedure by turning the ignition to the left, held it for 20 seconds and wham, just like summer. Using this method the tractor starts immediatly, every time!

Hope this helps,

Fred

Your Kioti is the same as mine so this should work for you.

Fred

 

[DK35vince]

just a quick question to you all. i have a block heater in my old JD870 and i ordered my new DK45SE HST with a lower radiator heater. how come not many of you use these heaters? are they hard on the tractor???

The only reason I never installed a block heater is that there is no electric to plug it in at the polebarn where the tractor is stored.