Snow Orange on Red

[timbrehse]

It's common knowledge all these blowers are manufactured by Rad Technologies and except for the impeller gearing these blowers are essentially identical. Since Kobotas spec'd pto speed is 2500 rpm vs Masseys of 2000 rpm, different gearing is used by rad tech to achieve the proper impeller rpm for both manufacturers. The gear ratio used Massey blowers 2:1 reduction while Kubotas is approx 2.9:1 therefore taking an optimum impeller speed into account these units are not really interchangeable.

Optimum impeller speed for these blowers is between 900-1000 rpm and while going higher is ok, going lower than this can compromises efficiency. Taking your gc tractor as an example where the impeller speed for a "massey" blower would be exactly 1000 rpm, swapping out for the same Kubota blower drops your impeller rpm to 687. For the sprocket chain blowers this is an easy fix to increase impeller RPM by just replacing the sprockets, Rad uses sprockets H40B26 H40C13 for the Massey MF2360.

Cheers

Wow-I haven' checked this board in a while
Thanks for the info Jaylegger ...AND Part #'s - love it when people post part#'s !!!!

I'll look into swapping out the sprockets but I can't imagine I'd need to increase my impeller's RPM. I'm afraid if I do this BX 5450 will be throwing snow a ridiculous distance... like into my neighbor's driveway! I had no difficulty last season moving what fell. Sure, if I'd nose into a 4 or 5ft bank, I'd get a little diesel bogg but I don't let it pile up. If it starts getting deep, I'll go out half way thru the storm. I prefer doing it twice to fighting with snow way over the top of the blower. And I'm not out there setting snowblowing speed records either. As is, this Orange on Red, w/ the flapper@45deg, will toss some fairly wet stuff 30ft or more w/o complaint.
However I DO have a complaint....about the 'newly designed outside mounted skid shoes' Granted, I like to scrape down on the blacktop. It then melts off quickly which is key w/ a steep driveway. I figured going in I'd be replacing the leading edge after 2-3 seasons or so but the shoes - no matter how hi or low they're set.. they're going to SKID ....and after one season, they're toast.




I've been looking for something like this



but the slot centers are 2.25" on the BX5450 - this is 2.5"
I found a standard pr. - Kubota Pt# 77700-05889 w/ shipping will run $55.
Any one have a better alternative?

 

[bumperm]

The wheel shown is going to get lateral wear as the tractor turns, as it's so far forward of the front wheels and has but a tiny footprint. I think a better solution to skids is what I've done, going on 3 seasons now and about 1/16" wear. Made from 3/4" UHMW PE (the strongest, most wear resistant plastic available).

 

[Clipse3GT]

The wheel shown is going to get lateral wear as the tractor turns, as it's so far forward of the front wheels and has but a tiny footprint. I think a better solution to skids is what I've done, going on 3 seasons now and about 1/16" wear. Made from 3/4" UHMW PE (the strongest, most wear resistant plastic available).

Where did you get the skid shoe brackets? Homemade? Did you cut the UHMW PE yourself?

 

[bumperm]

Yes, homemade. I have a machine shop and welding equipment in my plane hangar - love to piddle with stuff.

UHMW can be worked with woodworking tools. I used a table saw. For the counter sunk bolt holes (not shown), a drill press was used. I destroyed one skid as I was doing the drilling free hand with the drill press and a regular drill bit will want to grab and dig in. So it's necessary to clamp things down. Or, if drilling with a portable drill, use a tube or some other method of depth stop to prevent the bit from gouging in.

I took off the original skids and put them on the shelf.

 

[Clipse3GT]

Yes, homemade. I have a machine shop and welding equipment in my plane hangar - love to piddle with stuff.

UHMW can be worked with woodworking tools. I used a table saw. For the counter sunk bolt holes (not shown), a drill press was used. I destroyed one skid as I was doing the drilling free hand with the drill press and a regular drill bit will want to grab and dig in. So it's necessary to clamp things down. Or, if drilling with a portable drill, use a tube or some other method of depth stop to prevent the bit from gouging in.

I took off the original skids and put them on the shelf.

Nice! great job. Gave me an idea for my plow to use some UHMW PE for some skid shoes to not tear up the drive way.

 

[bumperm]

Peachtree Woodworking has the best prices I could find on Amazon. Check:

UHMW Sheet 3/4" x 4" x48" By Peachtree Woodworking - PW1125 - Woodworking Project Kits - Amazon.com

They sell several other sizes as well.

I've purchased full sheets from Plastics International, they have other sizes too and reasonable prices, but shop and compare.

Plastic Sheets, Rods & Tube - Plastics International | Plastics International

I have only used virgin UHMW. There are some companies also selling recycled (it is typically not the off-white color) and it should cost less but with slightly lower strength properties.

bumper

 

[timbrehse]

Very Nice Bumperm - a machine shop would be nice as well!
I do like the UHMW, would make a nice replacement cutting edge for a snowblower or a plow for that matter. Wouldn't it be great to be able to 3-D print a pr. of shoes w/ UHMW? Anyway, back to reality. I'd have to come up w/ a different design as it looks like your blower rides an inch? above the surface. I need to scrape down to blacktop. Years ago, I tried ureathene cutting edges on a 9' V plow. Was kind to the turf when pushing a pile off the pavement but was useless if it'd iced up under the snow. I read, earlier on this thread, maybe a different one, Kubota makes a "Plastic" vs. of the BX5450 shoe and cutting edge (BX5444 and BX5445 respectfully) I'm certain it will not perform as well as UHMW would but....I've eMailed my dealer for a quote. Anyone heard of or had any experience with these plastic replacements?

 

[bumperm]

No, I guess it doesn't show up so well (or at all), my original scraper bar on the blower is shimmed down to about 1/2" clearance - had to order a box of longer "plow bolts" (yeah, I never knew they were called that - in fact, I didn't even know there was such a thing a plow bolts!!).

Anyway, I have some UHMW on its way for the scraping edge. A couple of 4' lengths of 1/2" thick by 6" wide - I'll rip it at a 45* on the table saw and butt the resulting 3" strip together to cover the width. I may use the original metal scraper at the spacer, instead of the washers I'm using now.

No, I've looked into the plastic edges that the MFG's are using for scraping edges and such. I don't know of any of them that are using UHMW - too expensive, when there are way cheaper, but less durable, plastic options available.

 

[timbrehse]

Quote Originally Posted by bumperm View Post

"Anyway, I have some UHMW on its way for the scraping edge. A couple of 4' lengths of 1/2" thick by 6" wide - I'll rip it at a 45* on the table saw and butt the resulting 3" strip together to cover the width. I may use the original metal scraper at the spacer, instead of the washers I'm using now. "

Hey bumperm- I know it's an old thread - how did the UHMV scraping edge work out? The orig. edge on my BX5450 is so worn as to be of no value as a template.
I'd found a guy who fabricated these shoes pretty cheap-




am interested to see how they work/wear this season. He'd make me a scraping edge if I could supply the specs........any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[timbrehse]

Anyway, I have some UHMW on its way for the scraping edge. A couple of 4' lengths of 1/2" thick by 6" wide - I'll rip it at a 45* on the table saw and butt the resulting 3" strip together to cover the width. I may use the original metal scraper at the spacer, instead of the washers I'm using now. .

Hey bumperm- I know it's an old thread - how did the UHMV scraping edge work out? The orig. edge on my BX5450 is so worn as to be of no value as a template.
I'd found a guy who fabricated these shoes pretty cheap-




am interested to see how they work/wear this season. He'd make me a scraping edge if I could supply the specs........any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bumperm]

Hey bumperm- I know it's an old thread - how did the UHMV scraping edge work out? The orig. edge on my BX5450 is so worn as to be of no value as a template.
I'd found a guy who fabricated these shoes pretty cheap-
am interested to see how they work/wear this season. He'd make me a scraping edge if I could supply the specs........any help would be greatly appreciated.

The UHMW-PE scraper wear edge is working fine, no significant wear.

At first blush, not so impressed with the design of the skid sliders shown in your picture. I prefer a vertical metal mounting plate with either slots or off-set holes to adjust skid height. There is no need to mill or mold in the recess shown - better to have the material thicker and simply use longer carriage bolts. While turning the tractor, the side edge can see lateral loading if the slider hits a small bump etc, and this will stress the thinner material at the slots.

The useful area and thickness of the slider wear surface shown is minimal (mine have 10" X 2.5", 3/4" thick UHMW shoes, with angles cut fore and aft to go over bumps and irregularities. They have worn maybe 1/8" off the thickness in two seasons). Even if the ones shown are UHMW instead of cheaper plastic HDPE or similar, they would not last long in my application.

 

[irvingj]

Hey, Bumper!

Is your driveway paved? Just curious-- my metal edges wear pretty fast (I scrape right down to the pavement, "feet" on the sides fully retracted) and I've found a metal shop that can make me steel replacements very reasonably... but wondering if your thick UHMWPE edge will hold up any better.

BTW-- re-lined my blower impeller area with UHMWPE, this time with many countersunk blind rivets around the inside to hold it in place. Don't remember if I updated you on that. I'll see if it stays put this time around!

PS... PA-22 wings still waiting, but getting together with my A&P/IA to resume work on them....

 

[bumperm]

Yes, everything I'm blowing is paved, mostly concrete, some pavers, and a little asphalt. My UHMW blade is set at about 1/2"above the side skids, so they are carrying the load. The scraper only contact over irregularities.

In many applications, UHMW wears better than steel, though I can't say for sure in this app, I know the skids wear well.

I'll be interested in how your blower liner works with the rivets. The material length change with temperature, especially with longer pieces, will put shear stress into fixed fasteners . . . though with enough of them you may be good.

 

[irvingj]

"...though with enough of them you may be good." That's what I'm hoping... I did get some expansion before, but the main issue was the large rock I picked up, hitting the entry point and folding the UHMWPE back, which then caught everything. I couldn't really get it totally flattened out, and I'd only had screws on the entry & exit areas. The next large rock I hit took it out the rest of the way.

This time, I pulled the PE sheet back a bit at the entry point (see pic #2 above), so hopefully the steel will be "the first to get it" when & if I pick up a rock. I've also changed my tactics: for clearing up by the dirt road, I now remove the blower and use the FEL, which is probably what I should have been doing from the beginning, since it only takes a few minutes.... live & learn!

Check out my handy-dandy auger/gearbox lifting arrangement--- that assembly is just a bit heavy for one person to man-handle into place when re-assembling.... it worked out pretty well. Also used a board and a bottle jack to ensure PE was tight to the inside of impeller cavity as it was being riveted.

 

[bumperm]

If you ever run into the bent UHMW thing and need to straighten it out, you can heat it until it turns transparent - plastic memory will have it going back to it's original shape or nearly so.

On my blower housing, I folded the UHMW sheet up at the "sharp" lip where the housing transitions to the chute. There are just a couple of #10 screws holding the end in place - all the stress goes to that sharp bend. Then the centrifugal force and weight of the snow holds the liner to the blower housing, nothing more. At the discharge end of the liner, to allow for thermal expansion or contraction in length, there's a single slot. The slot is attached with one screw and washers so at so be a sliding fit. This has worked well. even picking up a rock and some gravel accidentally.

BTW, I've read that others who have to plow over gravel have replaced the scraper blade with a length of pipe. I suppose one might slot a plastic pipe and slide that on. With a plasma cutter one could slot a steel pipe - or just weld on tabs to mount.

 

[timbrehse]

The UHMW-PE scraper wear edge is working fine, no significant wear.

At first blush, not so impressed with the design of the skid sliders shown in your picture.

Thanks bumperm - Yes - These skids are in fact made from the inferior HDPE but are a basic design seen on 90% of the blowers out there that are not RAD Tech built, and these were all of $10.00 for the pr. so if they last the season - which averages only 4-6 snow falls.... The orig. steel skids were all but mangled shards by the end of last yr. (3rd season) tho my driveway is paved and smooth. I sit the cutting edge flat on the surface & it scarps clean. W/in an hr or so of sun, it's all dry blacktop. We don't suffer the same winter here -
no real need for overkill impeller or chute liners. 1x in 3yrs we had a sloppy snow that clogged up a cpl times. No biggie.
But I do respect and appreciate your opinion.
Point so far is no one is yet offering to fab and sell skids as kool as yours and as I said way earlier in this thread, I don't have machine shop in my garage....unfortunately.
What I could Really use are the specs. - Length- width- thickness & mitered angle of the scraping edge you made. Kubota's 'Plastic' vs. is Bx5445
At about $30. I could replace the HDPE shoes & edge every season as normal yearly maint. cost if need be

 

[bumperm]

I made the cutting edge and skid pads from 3/4" thick UHMW-PE purchased from Peachtree Woodworking (Amazon). They had the best prices I could find.

Cutting edge was 4" wide stock. I set the blade on my table saw for 45 degrees and ripped in half to get two lengths. The holes for the attach "Plow Bolts" were countersunk for the heads, through drilled bolt size - the UHMW has a strong tendency to grab and pull in a drill bit, so best to use a drill press and clamp work or, if using a hand drill, use a drill depth stop (piece of tubing or whatever) to limit countersink depth.

I've found that there's not a lot of difference in snow melt speed on pavement, between setting the scraper a little above, or actually scraping pavement. I'd started setting the scraper a little higher than the skid shoes back when I was using the original steel scraper. Some neighbors have pavers and the steel could mark them. This worked okay, but the UHMW is better. The mfg's don't use it due to initial expense.

 

[irvingj]

Slots are a great idea... too bad I didn't think of that! We'll see how it goes this winter. I'll post results.

 

[timbrehse]

I made the cutting edge and skid pads from 3/4" thick UHMW-PE purchased from Peachtree Woodworking (Amazon). They had the best prices I could find.

Cutting edge was 4" wide stock. I set the blade on my table saw for 45 degrees and ripped in half to get two lengths. The holes for the attach "Plow Bolts" were countersunk for the heads, through drilled bolt size - the UHMW has a strong tendency to grab and pull in a drill bit, so best to use a drill press and clamp work or, if using a hand drill, use a drill depth stop (piece of tubing or whatever) to limit countersink depth.

I've found that there's not a lot of difference in snow melt speed on pavement, between setting the scraper a little above, or actually scraping pavement. I'd started setting the scraper a little higher than the skid shoes back when I was using the original steel scraper. Some neighbors have pavers and the steel could mark them. This worked okay, but the UHMW is better. The mfg's don't use it due to initial expense.

Thanks Bumperm- just what I was looking for.
I'll be out in a few mins. this morning clearing my 1st snow of the season.
About scraping down to pavement - I set the cutting edge down flat on the pavement & adjust the 'shoes' accordingly.
My drive is steep w/ only a narrow country lane at the bottom to keep one from sliding over into a ravine.
Been here 24yrs... seen a few go over the edge. Have to be careful there's no stubborn ice build-up turning it into a frozen flume ride.
I have chains on all 4's of the Massey and studded snows on the wife's jeep.

 

[irvingj]

Did first snow removal a couple days ago (more coming down now), and so far, so good. PE held up well, didn't seem to buckle or shift at all. Blower sounds quite smooth, actually. Time will tell....

Gloss black paint I applied to the inside of the auger housing has also worked surprisingly well at shedding snow -- wish now I had hit the auger surfaces and fan blades, too!