oil pan heaters

[dogfarm]

I've just got my new Kama 554. I'm trying to make a decision on lube oil warmers. Where I am in western Mass, the temperature can go to -30F, This morning it was 10F when we left the house to go to work.

I'm thinking the right solution is an oilpan heater. I don't want to mess with freeze plugs and I've heard it's a hassle to install a block heater on the lower radiator hose because of the short hose. The configuration of the oil pan on the Kama is that it only has a couple of flat surfaces on the bottom that are 2x5 inches or so. I am limited to what I can fit to the oil pan.

I've seen small stick-on Wolverine units that are 1 1/4 x 4 but only heat small engines. A pair is rated for 4 qt oil capacity at 90 watts. That doesn't seem enough.
I can get a 250 watt magnetic block heater at my local Agway. It's a lot cheaper, but I've read the magnetic type doesn't stick well enough to transfer heat adequately
J.C. Whitney sells 1 2 1/8 x 4 unit that sticks on and is rated at 125 watts. Two of those would get me to 250 watts.

Does anyone have any experience with these units or other?

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've seen small stick-on Wolverine units that are 1 1/4 x 4 but only heat small engines. )</font>
Forget magnetic heaters. I thought cheap was the way to go too, and it ended up costing me more in the long run. But you're way behind the information curve on Wolverines. They've got heaters up to 1000w. CLICK HERE.

I'm using them on my 3rd tractor now. Dunno if your 554 has the same oil pan tunnel as my 454, but I bought a pair of 125w Wolverines (Model 9.1) and put one on either side of the drive shaft housing. Spliced the cords together into a single plug, and she's warm as toast now.

//greg//

 

[dogfarm]

Greg

Thanks for the quick reply! I actually remember reading something about a pair of Wolverines, but I couldn't remember where. I just found your reply to Paddy and was about to PM you. You beat me to it!

I was worried that the 6" length was too long, but if they work on yours, they should work on mine! The only concern I have is that they would be damaged by driving over brush. Do you have any kind of a skid plate protecting yours or is that not a problem for you?

Steve

 

[greg_g]

It's pretty much a matter of following the instructions and using the provided installation materials/tools. I used an angle grinder and wire brush cup to get the surface of the oil pan down to bare metal, and then cleaned the exposed surface with isopropyl. After applying the self-adhesive pad to a pre-warmed oil pan, I helped cure the edges with a hair dryer. Then I applied the supplied silicon sealer around all four edges to keep dirt/moisture from working its way between the pad and the pan.

In six years of using Wolverines, I've never so much as seen an edge lift. What's more vulnerable is the power cord. Even though I've never snagged one, it's still very very important to make sure the cord is drawn high and tight to make sure it doesn't catch on anything while the tractor is motion. I'm pretty sure the cord would stay in the field, and the pad would stay on the tractor.

//greg//

 

[Paddy]

I'll be taking Greg's advice...if I ever take my Kama out out her heated garage /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I used the preheat today for first time but, since it's 50 deg in the garage I don't know if it made any diff. Here in Indiana we recieved a lovely gift of 6.5" (and still snowing) of snow. got to play a bit.

Greg has some very good advice, take notes!

Patrick

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue"> Greg has some very good advice, take notes!
</font>

Hey Patrick,

We are in agreement.

I try to attend class everyday, if I can. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[schmalts]

I think you would do better to do a freeze plug heater over an oil pan heater for starting reasons. I dislike oil pan heaters because if they are a high wattage heater they will break down the oil where the oil sits over the hot spot. I would recommend a coolant heater and Synthetic oil instead.

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

I also like to heat the water/coolant in a engine when ever possible.

Ronald

Ranch Hand Supply

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I dislike oil pan heaters because if they are a high wattage heater they will break down the oil where the oil sits over the hot spot. )</font>

No offense schmalts. But that's an uninformed statement, very likely based upon incorrect selection and/or installation in the past. It's been stated repeatedly - on this forum and others - that pan heaters must be selected on the basis of engine oil capacity.

I've seen pan heaters as small as 40w and as large as 1000w. Like anything else, it's a matter of picking the right tool for the job. In the case of the brand I use on my KAMA, a pair of 125w pads will never heat the oil over 125 degrees (Fahrenheit).

//greg//

 

[schmalts]

Heating the oil is also not going to help start the engine in cold weather as well as heating the coolant. Heating the coolant will warm the cylinder walls and heads where it counts. Coolant also will not get thermal damage from being heated.
No offense to you either gregg but i have had engines apart that had pan heaters on them. Many times i have seen oil cokeing on the inside of the pan where the heater was placed. In order for the oil to be heated to 125 degrees, the heater has to be much hotter than that to keep up. The oil that is right on the other side of the heater will suffer some thermal damage. Maybe not much, but it will suffer.
The problem i have with oil heaters is that they do not heat the rest of the engine up as well as a coolant heater will, and i use a heater for starting ability, nothing more.
Your best bang for the buck is a freeze plug installed block heater when talking about cold starting.
The very worst heaters or dipstick heaters. they are nothing more than an oil destroying joke.
As far as what is said on this and other forums, i ignore a lot of it because it is said by guys with thier own opinions, rather than research and development data. If oil pan heaters were so great i think you would see more of them installed on commercial diesel engines from the factory but they use block heaters instead because its what they found works best.

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As far as what is said on this and other forums, i ignore a lot of it because it is said by guys with thier own opinions, rather than research and development data. If oil pan heaters were so great i think you would see more of them installed on commercial diesel engines from the factory but they use block heaters instead because its what they found works best. )</font>

I think I should have said narrow rather than uninformed. Because it now sounds like you basically ignore anything that doesn't agree with your own line of thinking. All I'm trying to do here, is relate my own experiences to justify one engine heater option for DOGFARM to consider. Whereas you're free to offer your own, please don't attack mine.

Correctly sized oil pan heaters indeed DO heat the water jackets by virtue of the physical law that says heat rises . I can testify to that from personal experience. 15 degrees in the shed this morning, and the side of the engine block was warm to the touch - from the parasitic heat rising from a pair of 125w pan heaters. Rising heat enters the water jackets first, which in turn transfer some heat to the block. How much or course, depends on the ambient temp.

I've pulled pans on my tractors too, and also have seen crud accumulated opposite the heater locations - just like you. You may have experienced "coking" from a incorrectly sized heaters. But on my tractors that crud is nothing more than wear residue/carbon/dirt that has been ionized by the magnetic field of the electric heater. Wipes right off with a rag, and works just as good as the old magnet in the pan trick.

Check around. I'll wager the majority of factory installed block heaters will be on vehicles that have HEATER cores. Coolant heaters represent a compromise solution; providing
-some heat to the block,
-little to the oil,
-but obviously get heat to the operator/driver a whole lot faster (than an oil heater).

Coolant heaters are user-friendly, a properly sized oil heater is engine-friendly.

//greg//

 

[Egon]

Check around -30 country. Take note of what heaters are predominant. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[schmalts]

No Gregg ,I dont ignore anything that isnt the same as my line of thinking, but i have seen a lot of poor advice given on a lot of these forums. not saying your advise is poor, i was just saying that a lot of guys giving advice on a lot of forums are far from correct.
And yes, coming from a occupation that is in the research and development engineering atmosphere i have a lot of data, and engineers to ask advice and get real data (including engineers who have worked for Cat, Cummings, and JD). I never was attacking you at all. Just making a statement that heating the coolant is a better way to transfer heat to where it is best needed for cold starting. I agree it is a good idea to keep the oil warm to get faster cranking speeds. Maybe a small wattage glue on type on the pan, but then i would suggest spending the rest of the electric bill on heating the mid and upper portion of the engine where starting counts.
I would make a guess that if your tractor was outside in a stiff cold wind on a very cold day if you took a infrared temp gun tested the temps of the block, head, and oil pan you would have less heat in the upper part of the engine than the lower due to the heat loss radiating off as it worked its way up, regardless that heat rises. So with that, warm oil is not a big advantage if the mid to upper end of the engine is cold, or should i say it is more advantage as far as starting an engine if the heat was in the upper end of the engine.
Heating the oil is not even needed as long as you replace the oil with a winter type, although it is a good idea.
The epoxy on type of heaters are popular on Air cooled engines and are very popular for small aircraft. Tannis makes a real nice system for aircraft engines. But those are installed with 3-4 smaller patches rather than one big one. One small patch on the oil pan and the rest on the block where the cylinders bolt on.

 

[schmalts]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Check around -30 country. Take note of what heaters are predominant. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>
Well, what ones are?? dont keep us hanging /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Egon]

Coolant heaters, most are in the block with some on the lower rad hoze. They both work equally well.

Heating the coolant sets up convection currents so the whole block gets warm including the oil. This happens by heat conduction through the engine metal.

If we want a warm interior we use in car heaters.

Egon

 

[schmalts]

Yep, that is correct, and coincides with the data i have seen.
When heating just the oil pan a large portion of the heat is radiated off the sides of the pan as the heat rises, and lost before it makes it up to the mid to upper engine where it is most usefull for starting. The inside air pocket between the oil itself and the block is a poor conductor (air is a poor heat conductor) so the majority of the heat wicks up the sides of the cast oil pan and is lost to cold winds before it gets to the top of the engine.
Not that most guys would really care about the electric bill but in order to get the upper engine warm using an oil pan heater you would need a much higher wattage device VS a freeze plug heater.

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( in order to get the upper engine warm using an oil pan heater you would need a much higher wattage device VS a freeze plug heater. )</font>

Again, I will cite personal experience to the contrary. I have a 500w block heater (fixed thermostat control) on my Mercedes turbo diesel, and two 125w pan heaters (thermocouple control) on my KAMA. Both are parked in unheated, open-ended structures. Both have Rotella-T 15W40 in the crankcase and 80C thermostats. Let's take this morning, 15 degrees. After starting the Benz, I got interior heat almost immediately. In fact, I could see the temp gauge needle move up even before hitting the glow plugs. But after starting, I had very high oil pressure - indicating thick oil. Lots of valve train clatter. In a few minutes, the oil pressure started going down - oil was finally thin enough to go to work.

I already mentioned that the KAMA block was warm to the touch from the pan heaters. No glow plugs on this tractor by the way. I opened the compression release, spun the starter, saw oil pressure on the gauge in less than 10 seconds. THEN I let go of the compression release and she fired right off. Once running, it took <2 min to see movement on the temp gauge.

Each to his own, and for some folks a block heater is the right tool for the job. Never see -30F nights here, and no cab heater on the tractor - so for my situation, oil pan heaters are MY tool of choice.

//greg//

 

[dogfarm]

Thanks to all who responded with their advice and preferences. I guess I've sort of joined the oil pan heater camp insofar as I ordered a pair of Wolverine heaters. We'll see how well they do. I wish I had them on already as it was -5F this morning. I didn't need to start the Kama, but sooner or later I'll be needing it when it's early and cold.

I'll let you all know my experience after I've had a chance to see how they work in the cold.

Have a Merry and a Happy, All

Steve