OEM or copy brand

[Eagle1]

Supply houses have homeowner costs…
and contractor costs.

Or you buy from an online (or local) supply house that does NOT double or triple their contractor price for home owners.

Need to add -- I see places buying things on-line and then doubling/tripling the price to their local customers that don't shop on line,

 

[tstex]

Or you buy from an online (or local) supply house that does NOT double or triple their contractor price for home owners.

I prefer to do business w the smaller company and I want them to be profitable. However, I do not prefer for their higher [excessive] profit margins to be at my families expense.

The reason I started this thread was to ascertain if price had any bearing on the quality/authenticity of the product. Buying online offers some advantages of non brick & mortar, but you have to know where and when. You guys helped me to buy a quality product at the most reasonable price....thank you

 

[Eagle1]

One more thought, I have a small business and would love to support those around me. However I would have to raise my prices by 2 to 3 times to do that. Things are often 3 or 4 times the cost locally over having them drop shipped. The supply chain model is broken for small businesses. For example, if I want to sell Pepsi (or any bottling co) products and buy from the bottle co. I have a 10 case minimum and it will cost me right at $2 per 16 oz bottle. If I buy at Walmart I half of that per bottle with no minimum. I have a wholesaler that almost matches Walmart (still more) but delivers, so saves me money and an hour and half round trip.
If you buy 10 case every 2 weeks you pay more than twice what a Walmart pays, how can you make this work? I used to drive to Walmart and undercut all other locals by 25-50 %. Currently we all buy from the same small wholesaler and our cost and prices are very similar and yes we exchanged information and banded together to get that wholesaler to expand their delivery route to here and early on have them stop at one place and the rest went and picked up their order there.

 

[tstex]

The dynamics of free enterprise, S&Demand and market driven pricing....

 

[tstex]

Well, I received both Siemens c-breakers (125 & 40amps) and both have UL listing & CSA listing. The 125amp has some anti corrosion/oxidation in the slots on the back where it clips on. Also states they were assembled in Mexico.

I’ve enclosed a few pics, but drive out for both were $72.00. Both sets of lugs seem to be Aluminum so no copper there. I am installing copper #2 & #4 in !25 7 40 amp, respectively.

I’m installing on 3/29 and I’ll post some install pic’s.

Thanks again to all,
tstex

 

[mo1]

I would consider running large enough cable to support 200 amps to the house if the utility gave you a 200 amp service at the pole and you are having to put in a new cable run between the pole and your house. 100 amps isn't much for a service for a house these days, particularly with the writing on the wall being that you are probably going to be made to run more things off of electricity in the future that draw a lot of amps. I would use 2/0 with a #4 ground instead of the #2 if you really want to use copper. Copper #4 is usually good for 90 amps unless you are using UF-B then it's only good for 70, so you have room to grow on that 40 amp circuit.

I would also personally run aluminum wire instead of copper for a service entrance. It's far less expensive and has been used for decades without issues. All of the houses I've lived in since at the very least the late '80s have had aluminum service entrance wire and no issues. 4/0 aluminum with a 1/0 ground would be what you would use for your house for 200 amps. The 125 amp breaker won't fit 4/0 wire but you can always splice the 4/0 to a short piece of 1/0 or 2/0 coming from the breaker in order to use your 125 amp breaker and still retain the larger wire in the conduit for if you upgrade the house to 200 amps.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

The AIC rating will effect the pricing considerably.

Electrical Circuit Breakers
"Ampere Interrupting Capacity (AIC)
Circuit breakers are tested and then rated as to their ability to open the protected circuit with a specific amount of current flowing in the circuit. Circuit breakers typically have AIC ratings of between 5,000 and 200,000 AIC. The amount of fault current available must not exceed the breaker’s ability to safely open the circuit. Not only must the breaker be rated for the applied voltage, and continuous amperage load; it must also have an AIC rating equal to or greater than the available current at the location in the circuit where it will be installed. Breakers that have been installed so that the available fault current exceeds its AIC rating may blow up, just like a bomb would explode were it to attempt to clear a fault current above its rating. When opening a faulted circuit, it is possible for smoke and fire to be exhausted from a breaker. If you would like to see a breaker belch fire and smoke, see if you can locate and view the Cooper-Bussmann fuse company videotape titled “Specification Grade Protection”. The visual impact of this tape will likely enhance your appreciation of the importance of an electrical device’s AIC rating far better than any words of mine.

In your safety classes, you likely have received training in the step to the side routine before manually switching electrical circuits, and this videotape will reinforce the value of this easy safety step. This is also a good reason why sheet metal covers called dead front trim should be re-installed on loadcenters, panelboards, and the like before operating switching devices.

Electrical engineers tell us that the two major factors that govern the amount of fault current that can be delivered in a system are the KVA rating of the transformer and the impedance of the transformer. The presence of connected electric motors in the circuit also adds to the amount of potential fault current. Considering 480 volt systems, combined transformer and motor fault currents can range from 14,400 amps for a 500 KVA transformer with an impedance of 5.0% to some 90,000 amps for a 3500 KVA transformer with 5.75% impedance. Selecting all circuit breakers for higher AIC ratings may be the safety first and cost last method."

Edited to add; my meterbase is a 200 amp Siemens using a 22KA 200 Amp breaker

The impedance (resistance) of the conductors is also factored into a mathematical equation for AIC ratings. This allows for choosing a breaker rated for the fault current at the Service disconnect or Service disconnects. The Lower the resistance of the wire, the higher the fault current that is available.

I have had to install up to 65,000 AIC rated breakers for residential services. The closer you are to the Utility Transformer the higher the fault current that is available.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Well, I received both Siemens c-breakers (125 & 40amps) and both have UL listing & CSA listing. The 125amp has some anti corrosion/oxidation in the slots on the back where it clips on. Also states they were assembled in Mexico.

I’ve enclosed a few pics, but drive out for both were $72.00. Both sets of lugs seem to be Aluminum so no copper there. I am installing copper #2 & #4 in !25 7 40 amp, respectively.

I’m installing on 3/29 and I’ll post some install pic’s.

Thanks again to all,
tstex

If this is getting inspected? You will need a larger conductor for the 125 Amp breaker.
I would recommend using 1/0 XHHW aluminum as it is rated for 120 amps and by code can be protected by the next larger standard size breaker (of 125Amps). It is also less expensive than copper.
By code the largest breaker that can be used with a #2 copper conductor is 100 Amps. As the #2 wire is rated for 95 amps. Next standard size up from 95 is 100 amp circuit breaker.

 

[grsthegreat]

Yes and no. If buried with 75°c rated lugs, copper is rated 115A, so a 125 A breaker is ok.
this is where it gets dicey. Some old panels arnt rated, so they fall to the 60° code, in which your answer is correct.

im so glad i retired From electrical.

 

[mo1]

If this is getting inspected? You will need a larger conductor for the 125 Amp breaker.
I would recommend using 1/0 XHHW aluminum as it is rated for 120 amps and by code can be protected by the next larger standard size breaker (of 125Amps). It is also less expensive than copper.
By code the largest breaker that can be used with a #2 copper conductor is 100 Amps. As the #2 wire is rated for 95 amps. Next standard size up from 95 is 100 amp circuit breaker.

The 125 amp circuit is to a house so it follows the 83% rule, you only have to have wire rated for 83% of the amperage on a dwelling. Everything else is 100% or higher.