No loader Hydraulics

[bfoote]

I will start this post confessing my rookie status as a tractor owner. I purchased a used AC 5050 tractor last year, and have had few problems with it. I plowed my driveway all winter with it, and suddenly the other day, I had no response from my controls for the front loader? The hoses are a bit worn overall, but I could not see any noticeable leaks. I did check the fluid level for the loader, and it was low. I used some hydraulic fluid to add to it, and it seemed to take quite a bit of fluid, I probably added 2 quarts. The oil now shows on the dipstick, but still no response from the loader hydraulics. Any ideas on how to best troubleshoot this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kennyd]

First, Welcome to TBN

Does the joystick seem to be operating the valve body?
Do the IN/OUT hoses to the valve get warm after the tractor has run a while?
Is there ant change in the engine sound when the joystick is moved?
Are there any other hydraulics on the tractor?


It's possible that the hydraulic pump died on you, or is not being driven anymore by the engine.

 

[bfoote]

Thanks for the welcome to the site. With this older tractor, and my lack of experience working on them, this will likely not be my last post! The joystick did appear to move the valves as they did before. I ran the tractor for about 30 minutes or so, which I think would be long enough to heat it all up, but I didn't check for any heat on the hoses as you mentioned. But I did not seem to pick on any noticeable change in the engine, when I tried to engage the joysticks. The tractor does have rear hydraulics, but I've not used them yet, and still have not purchased any attachments, so I'm not entirely sure about testing the hydraulics in the back of the tractor? The only other thing I did recently with the tractor, was to shut off the pto, which I could see running the shaft on the back of the tractor. But I'm assuming the pto is seperate from the loader hydraulics? If it is the hydraulic pump that failed, is this something that would be rebuilt, or replaced?

 

[kennyd]

First I would try to re-engage the rear PTO just to make sure that the hydro pump is not driven off of it, unlikely, but you never know what the previous did.
To test the rear hydraulic's, just try to operate the lever while the tractor is running and see if the engine lugs down (hydraulic system will go in "relif")-if it does then they are working, but my guess is they are not working either.

I am not real familiar with these older machines, but have a good understanding of hydraulics, othes will chime in shortly also I'm sure...

 

[SPYDERLK]

I will start this post confessing my rookie status as a tractor owner. I purchased a used AC 5050 tractor last year, and have had few problems with it. I plowed my driveway all winter with it, and suddenly the other day, I had no response from my controls for the front loader? The hoses are a bit worn overall, but I could not see any noticeable leaks. I did check the fluid level for the loader, and it was low. I used some hydraulic fluid to add to it, and it seemed to take quite a bit of fluid, I probably added 2 quarts. The oil now shows on the dipstick, but still no response from the loader hydraulics. Any ideas on how to best troubleshoot this would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, welcome to the site. Often an unseated hydraulic quick connector is the reason for symptoms like yours. Trace the hoses and find the end connections. Some connections screw together - you are looking for those that plug together - there is probably a retractable collar on them to enable removal and reinsertion of the plug. Engine off, do your best totake all weight off the loader cylinders, then unplug and re connect the QCs to be sure they are fully mated. If you have trouble reconnecting its probably line pressure from the weight of the loader bearing on the cylinders. When you get the weight off they wiil go together easily with a firm push.
Good luck!
larry

 

[bfoote]

I will try and test the rear hydraulics, I wasn't sure if they all ran from the same hydraulic pump. In order to engage the pto again, is it simply a matter of holding in the clutch, and engaging the lever I used to disengage it?
And thanks SPYDERLK, for the advice too. Would you recommend taking off and then reconnecting all of the hose quick connects in this process? I am envisioning this as a sealed system, so I wasn't sure if taking off and reconnecting a quick connect hose would then allow air to enter in the system, but I suppose that is the role of the quick connect in the first place. I also haven't taken the screen out of the hydraulic pump, which I believe the Allis Chalmers manual stated was there, to see if that was dirty or clogged. It sounds like I have a number of different things to look at.....

 

[SPYDERLK]

I will try and test the rear hydraulics, I wasn't sure if they all ran from the same hydraulic pump. In order to engage the pto again, is it simply a matter of holding in the clutch, and engaging the lever I used to disengage it?
And thanks SPYDERLK, for the advice too. Would you recommend taking off and then reconnecting all of the hose quick connects in this process? I am envisioning this as a sealed system, so I wasn't sure if taking off and reconnecting a quick connect hose would then allow air to enter in the system, but I suppose that is the role of the quick connect in the first place. I also haven't taken the screen out of the hydraulic pump, which I believe the Allis Chalmers manual stated was there, to see if that was dirty or clogged. It sounds like I have a number of different things to look at.....

I think youll find a connector unseated, but once youre on it you might as well do em all. Air in the system self bleeds so dont worry. Filters/screen dont usually cause a sudden failure as you have described.
larry

 

[kennyd]

My only disagreement with Larry's assessment is this:
If a QD is unseated, then the system will go into relief when that function is activated-there will be a marked load on the engine at that time.

Yes to engage the PTO, push the clutch all the way in, move lever, then let the clutch out.

 

[rdbrumfield]

what kind of tractor is it? The old fords and fergusons will not work unless the pto is in gear. Most of them run the hyd on the loader off the crank on the engine.
If all works, you might check the relief on the valve system for the loader. Even if it is stuck open the rear should work. Might have a broken spring or a piece of something in there holding it open.

 

[bfoote]

It is an Allis Chalmers 5050, not sure about the year, its 4wd as well. I haven't had time to run it this week and try some of the recommendations, but ironically I'm starting to wonder if this problem started after I disengaged the pto?

 

[MFRED]

If your 5050 is like the one I had, the loader ran off the pto. Not directly but a pump bolted to an acess cover just above the 540 shaft. Make sure the big arm on the left side is engaged but also there is a little lever mounted on the top of the transmission case below the seat. Many a times getting on and off that cramped little tractor my boot hit the second lever and that would shut the pto off also.

 

[bfoote]

Thanks for the info about your 5050. I did disengage the small lever under the seat recently, guess I was thinking that there was no need to have the pto engaged. I'm a little confused about the big arm on the left side that you are talking about though? I know there is a lever for balancing I think, though I'm not sure what that one even does?

 

[bfoote]

Its funny, I just read your post again, and I agree it isn't an easy tractor to get in and out of. I'm a pretty good sized guy, and I have to be careful with my feet getting into it every time. Overall my AC 5050 is a pretty solid tractor for what I need, I just bought it last year, but plan on getting a brush hog, and rake to keep up with my land out back. Not sure if you ran a brush hog on yours though, and what size you might think would be best to run on the 5050? The seat on my tractor is pretty banged up as well, so I need to take that off and repair or replace it.

 

[Soundguy]

Perhaps you could try to find an owners manual for that tractor.. it's not a good idea to own a tractor and not now what the controls all do.

soundguy

 

[bfoote]

I have the manual for the tractor, I'll take a look at the lever that MFRED was referencing in the manual, rather than asking about it's use in the forum. I've only had the tractor for six months or so, its my first tractor, and I am still familiarizing myself with all of the various controls that it has.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Manuals Shmanuals. We are men. Who needs instructions?

That said you should own a PT. The manual is all of one page long. One of our gripes but it gives us great enjoyment creating our own.

No guarantee your manual is accurate. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Carl

 

[bfoote]

Carl, now I'm feeling very vulnerable asking this, but what is a PT?

 

[woodlandfarms]

Power Trac. The coolest tractor you will ever hate.

power-trac.com

Basically they are an articulated "tractor". More along the lines of a bobcat than a real CUT. Not a lot of ground oomph ( you would not do any real plowing with this tractor) but amazingly flexible at FEL, Mowing, and all the other tasks. They are also slope friendly (mine is rated at 45 degrees sideways).

Upside is they are flexible, powerful, and easy to work on. Downside is that fit and finish are marginal at the factory, they are simple (no bells and whistles) and with no dealers other than the factory, you are often left to your own devices for repairs.

 

[MFRED]

Left side of the dash, about 1 ft long lever. I had a lever hooked by the steering base. Pulled it down from up by the dash to rest on top of the transmission. Near the other pto handle. Sorry that might confuse you even more. Don't really know how to describe it.
I ran a heavy duty 6ft cutter on it. Handled it pretty good with the loader on for front weight. If there was alot of heavy stuff it would bog down but I just slowed down a bit. The tractor was too low for my usual smashmouth attack of bushes.
Not that it wasn't a good tractor, because I put many good hard hours on it, but man I was glad to see that thing go. Before it left it was down to 1 job of stacking round bales in the shed. Always had to plan it out to get the most seat time at once so I wouldn't have to slither off of it. It just made me more angry. Probably the olny reason it's not here anymore.

 

[Soundguy]

I have the manual for the tractor, I'll take a look at the lever that MFRED was referencing in the manual, rather than asking about it's use in the forum. I've only had the tractor for six months or so, its my first tractor, and I am still familiarizing myself with all of the various controls that it has.

I didn't say to not ask what the lever was.. i said to check out the manual.. they are usually loaded with good bits of operating and safety info, plus care and feeding for the machine. not all manuals are created equal.. some are real helpfull.. some are all legaleze and fluff.. or bad chinglish translations... your milage may vary.

soundguy