Newbit tree cutdown question

[sendero]

Ok, I've cut down a boatload of trees. But I have one that's going to need some special care.

This tree has to fall a certain direction, because there is a power line that it *might* touch if it doesn't. And I've learned the hard way that if a tree WANTS to fall a certain direction, you can notch it like the book says and it will IGNORE you. This tree would definitely prefer to fall toward the power line, having a slight tilt in that direction.

So, I assume I need to tie a rope to it, maybe a few feet off the ground, and put some tension on it in the direction you want it to fall.

But what else? Do you then use the same notch technique? Seems like it might be better just to cut it across it this case.

Any advice y'all would have about doing this I'd appreciate. I've had a couple of close calls cutting larger trees, and I'd really prefer not to create any new problems

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[tallyho8]

I know lots of people on this site would be glad to help you, but you can get info from some very experienced arborists at this site.
Arborist Forum

 

[K7147]

Ok, I've cut down a boatload of trees. But I have one that's going to need some special care.

This tree has to fall a certain direction, because there is a power line that it *might* touch if it doesn't. And I've learned the hard way that if a tree WANTS to fall a certain direction, you can notch it like the book says and it will IGNORE you. This tree would definitely prefer to fall toward the power line, having a slight tilt in that direction.

So, I assume I need to tie a rope to it, maybe a few feet off the ground, and put some tension on it in the direction you want it to fall.

But what else? Do you then use the same notch technique? Seems like it might be better just to cut it across it this case.

Any advice y'all would have about doing this I'd appreciate. I've had a couple of close calls cutting larger trees, and I'd really prefer not to create any new problems

Merry Christmas everyone.

Seddero!

Without seeing the tree it’s hard to tell, however, here is what I suggest:

1. Get the line as high in the tree as possible to gain maximum leverage. I’ve even used a bow and arrow to shoot up a pilot line. Put the line through a block and then away from the fall line so it can be tensioned in safety. Tie the end off.
2. Put a second line on the tree as high as is practical and permanently secure this line to an anchor point such that the tree can’t twist towards the power line.
3. Cut your fall line notch facing some twenty degrees more than normal away from the power line.
4. The straight cut on the back of the tree should be 1/3 down from the top of the opposite notch. Continue this cut until you’ve left about two inches of hinge.
5. Untie the block line and apply maximum tension (you might even pull the tree over). Retie the block line anchor.
6. Back-cut into the hinge till the tree falls.

Hope this helps………Ken

 

[lopezian]

I would second the advice K7147 offered. In my very limited experience with leaning trees, I have found it important to 1) cut slowly, and 2) retension as you go. For example you may be able to only move the tree a little bit in the right direction with a block and tackle before you make the first cut. But after notching you should be able to crank it down a little more in the direction you want to go. Then after you start to make the straight cut on the back you should be able to crank it down significantly more - perhaps enough to pull it over completely.

One thing to watch out for - it is rare but it does happen - is that the tree splits right UP the trunk. That is, if you crank it too much after you have cut partially through the trunk, you can pull the tree over, splitting it up the middle of the trunk from your cut. If that happens the tree is going to pivot in wierd ways when it comes down.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Also be careful not to cut thru the hinge as this will csuse you to loose control of the fall direction. You can cut a little more on the side opposite of where you want it to go.That will releive that side and leave more meat on the fall direction side which causes the tree to go in that direction.

 

[IH3444]

Contact your power company first, and let them send out a line engineer to see what you are going to do. Sometime the power company will take the tree down to the point where it is not a threat to the power line, and then it's your task.

 

[randy41]

IH3444 has the right idea. let them worry about it and if something goes wrong its their headache. i know this is less adventurous but chances are that the power company will look at it and remedy it if they feel it will hurt their precious power lines.
i've felled enough trees to know that it is not an exact science.

 

[turnkey4099]

Using rope: NO! Not unless it is a better rope than you will find in your local hardware store. Use cable, it isn't much more expensive than good rope anyhow. I broke a rope once on a tall, big locust growing right next to the house. Did my undercut, back cut, went to re-tension and the rope broke. I then had the fun of crawling back up a tree that was ready to fall and placing the cable I should have used first.

Power company: Yes by all means. I had another big locust that looked like it would hit a guy wire, called them and they sent someone out to fall it for me. They disconnected the power from the line (it was a feed to a yard pole) and fell it for me. Yes, they hit the guy wire. The worst that can happen when you call is that they will say no.

Harry K

 

[czechsonofagun]

Contact your power company first, and let them send out a line engineer to see what you are going to do. Sometime the power company will take the tree down to the point where it is not a threat to the power line, and then it's your task.

This is the best way to do it, IMHO.

After a call they showed up with high level platform and chopped the pine into pieces, quickly and safely.

 

[EddieWalker]

I had a very large pine that was right inside my property line that I had to take out in order to run power to my place. If it fell the wrong way, it could easily damage the State Highway and even hurt somebody. The tree also had allot of weight on that side of it. Probably enough to cause it to fall that way.

I started asking around and found a guy who said he'd lay it down for $300 right where I wanted it. He climbed the tree to the very top and put on two ropes. One was very thick and braded. He told me it was virtually impossible to break it and it was very expensive, but I don't remember the numbers. That rope was tied to my dozer. He was gonna use his truck, but since I had the dozer, we all thought that would be better.

The other rope he tied to himself and a guy on the ground held one end of it.

He cut the branches off the back side, including one that was full of carpenter ants. To see him try to get away from them with a running chain saw convinced me even more that I didn't want to be up there!!

He had four Stihl chainsaws and his biggest could only make it half way through the truck. He cut the wedge out from both sides and then my dad put some tension on the tree with the dozer.

The picture is of my dad pulling on the rope in the dozer.

He cut the back side of the tree and it fell exactly where I wanted it.

I've taken out thousands of trees with my dozer and backhoe. Some bigger than the one in the picture without any problems, but on this one, I wasn't comfortable with what could happen.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[SPYDERLK]

Eddie, was it a Spectra- Fiber rope? A 3/16" Spectra rope has 5000# breaking strength. You have to use special knots to prevent the rope just pulling right thru the knot.
Larry

 

[Doc_Bob]

I

The picture is of my dad pulling on the rope in the dozer.

Good luck,
Eddie

Great picture.
Bob

 

[IH3444]

Pulled a few down myself with my little dozer. In fact one I was doing for a neighbor started to topple towards his little house, I let the clutch out on the dozer in low gear and the oak just came back the way it was suppose to fall. That one was cabled, but I have used 3/4" nylon rope with great results. Remember when using rope that any knot tied, unless you are well versed in knot tieing will cause the rope to be half it's working strength, or ultimate tensile strength. The knot caused a high stress area. The 3/4" nylon rope is good for, depends who's number's you want to believe, 12,000 - 14,000 pounds. I always try to tie the straightest half hitches I can. Therefore reducing the stress concentration. Poleclimber just helped me greatly taking down a highly arched over the house 80' white oak tree. He climber that baby with his gaffs up to where it began to arch over severely, then he installed the 3/4" nylon rope. What a manly task!!! Got pics I need to post a few, but a DVD is now burning. I attached that one to the TC48, and it pulled it down in 4wd without even breathing hard. I had loaded the front bucket with broken concrete. The TC48 didn't even spin a tire on dirt ground.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie, was it a Spectra- Fiber rope? A 3/16" Spectra rope has 5000# breaking strength. You have to use special knots to prevent the rope just pulling right thru the knot.
Larry

Spectra doesn't sound familiar, but I really don't remember. It was much, much thicker than that. My guesse would be around an inch and a half thick and 300 feet long. It was a very serious rope!!!

I didn't see the knots at either end. I never thought to look.

The rope lookes like it was several dozen smaller ones all braded together, but each one was flat and smooth.

The dozer is 40,000 pounds and 160 hp. It pulled that rope pretty hard and it seemed to just keep stretching and getting thinner!!!! The guy said we couldn't brake it and at first, I doubted him, but after seeing how far it stretched, and how it pulled that tree, he might have been right.

Eddie

 

[K7147]

Using rope: NO! Not unless it is a better rope than you will find in your local hardware store. Use cable, it isn't much more expensive than good rope anyhow. I broke a rope once on a tall, big locust growing right next to the house. Did my undercut, back cut, went to re-tension and the rope broke. I then had the fun of crawling back up a tree that was ready to fall and placing the cable I should have used first.

Power company: Yes by all means. I had another big locust that looked like it would hit a guy wire, called them and they sent someone out to fall it for me. They disconnected the power from the line (it was a feed to a yard pole) and fell it for me. Yes, they hit the guy wire. The worst that can happen when you call is that they will say no.

Harry K

The rope I use is a “little” bit better than found in a hardware store. From our sailboat days I have two 600ft warps of ¾” Sampson double braid with integral throats (have to know how to do “fid” splicing). No kinks, smooth to the hands, and many times the strength of three strand nylon. Also, as it is Dacron it allows much less “bounce back” or stretch.

Ken

 

[K7147]

Ok, I have a bit more time now to reply to the comment about NOT using rope to fell a tree…..

A cable has a great deal of tensile strength, however, little in the way of stretch…agreed? A synthetic rope of proper diameter and quality will have “stretch”….agreed?

When a cable is used to tension a tree and the tree starts to fall the first few inches the metal cable immediately goes slack and thus becomes useless as it nor longer provides any tension to direct the fall of the tree. As we all know this is exactly the moment when falling trees are apt to do strange things with respect to the choice of direction.

When a synthetic rope is used to tension a tree it becomes stretched. As the tree starts to fall this stretching is somewhat reduced, however, if properly tensioned the rope will maintain pull on the tree for a much longer period of time than a cable and particularly during the critical first stages of the tree starting to lean.

Does this pass the common sense and reasonable test for anyone?

Ken

 

[tensaw12]

Does for me!

 

[IH3444]

That's what I have found with the nylon rope, and why I use it now.

 

[thingy]

You get somebody who can climb and cut at same time,limb it on the way up,cut it off in manageable logs,with a couple guys on ground with a rope,,thingy

 

[Youare]

The tree grew towards the power line becasue there was more light in that direction. Getting a tree to fall against it's natural lean takes and act against gravity, which can be done.

There are several unknowns at this point which can influence whether or not this tree can be dropped from the ground or if it has to be taken down from the top to the bottom. What is the over all health of the tree, is there a chance there is rot in the base of the tree or in the trunck? Should there be any question of the vitality of the hindge wood I would suggest it be taken down a piece at a time from the top.

Getting a tree to fall in the direction you want it to go against a lean will take leverage as high up as you can get it. As many others have suggested a GOOD strong rope is essential. I use a rope puller and a 1/2" high strength rope. The rope puller is designed to pull rope and has an advantage over a come-along in that the pulling range is whatever your rope length is. The one I have is rated for 1400 lbs.

Once you have the rope positioned as high up as you can get and your rope is longer than the tree you are cutting which is fastened to an object heavier than the tree put a little tension on the rope. Make sure you are pulling in the same direction as your notch will be facing.

Make your notch facing the direction you want the tree to fall so that the width of the notch is at least 80% of the tree diameter. Your hindge wood thickness should be at least 10% of the tree diameter but you can leave a little more if it makes you feel better. Remember you have to break this band of wood to get the tree to begin to fall. Picture a 2X12 standing on end in the ground and the force it takes to break this off by pulling on the top and you get an idea of how much the hingde wood can hold.

Directly behind where your notch cuts intersect bore into and through the tree a couple of inches behind this point, here you will establish your hindge before you complete your back cut. Once you have cut foward and made your hindge start cutting towards the back of the tree. You can cut one quarter of the back wood away and leave one quarter holding. Insert a plastic felling wedge and tap it in until it is good and tight.

Cut around from the other direction but leave a small strip a little more than the chainsaw bars width from the first wedge of holding wood. Insert another felling wedge. Knock both wedges in until both are tight alternating hitting one then the other. Here is where two people come in handy. Have the other person increase the tension on the rope.

Sometimes the tree will start to fall at this point, the little remaining holding wood you left between the wedges breaks and the tree falls in the direction you notched it. Sometimes the holding wood needs to be cut before the tree falls. Knock your wedges in once more. If you need to take your saw and cut the holding wood between the wedges, the wedges will keep your saw from being pinched. Once this holding wood is cut the tree should begin to fall in the direction you want it to, keep putting more tension on the rope until you are certain the tree is on it's way.

One way to tell if you have the rope up high enough and enough leverage is before you cut put some tension on the rope, if the top of the tree moves in the right direction you've got it.

Randy