Newbie question :Backflip

[MarkStewart]

Is there less of a chance of flipping a tractor over backwards if there is an impliment attached to the back? Would there be enough force to just bend the toplink into a pretzel? Has anyone seen the toplink of a tractor bend or break in a backflip? I was traversing a small hill the other day on my 1401 and I started to wheelie, kinda scared me a little. I need to add more weight on front but I didn't want to over do it. I have about 100lbs on front now. It worked fine till i tried to go up the hill with my 24" dirtscoop full.

 

[beenthere]

I don't think it can flip over as the loaded dirt scoop will contact the ground (even if you don't purposely drop the 3pt) long before the front end comes over top dead center. But you do lose stability anytime the front end gets off the ground. If one rear tire gets traction and you are not steering with the individual rear brakes, the front end could come around quickly causing the tractor to lay on its side. Best you balance your load with counterweight. Also, know how to steer by using the rear individual brakes (if your tractor allows that - some don't).

 

[rockyridgefarm]

FWIW, I had similar problems with my 186D, adding ballast to the front tires helped a lot.

 

[RoyJackson]

"I started to wheelie, kinda scared me a little. I need to add more weight on front but I didn't want to over do it. I have about 100lbs on front now. It worked fine till i tried to go up the hill with my 24" dirtscoop full. "

Maybe you should back up or over that hill. That would prevent you from flipping over backwards (at least in this particular situation).
Does your machine have a ROPS?
I've read a couple times that a rear turnover takes about 1½ seconds. You've got about ¾ of a second to react. If you don't have a ROPS, you're likely to be killed.
One incident in particular that rattled me was a farmer who had left his machine out in a field during the winter. He started it, engaged a forward gear and the tractor (rear wheels frozen to the ground) rotated around the rear axle, crushing him. I don't have a field (residential use here), but I've always engaged reverse first if the machine has been left outside overnight.

 

[jinman]

The chance of backflipping on a modern 3PH tractor is pretty slim. Beenthere's response that it creates severe instability is the primary problem with the front tires getting light.

I've posted this before, but filling a dirt scoop with no front weight almost killed my father. He was attempting to dig a trench using a scoop. As anyone knows who has used one of these, the scoop takes out the center of the hole and you have to make multiple side-offset passes to continue to dig. In my father's case, he dug deep enough that we had to use shovels to cut down the sides of the trench. The loose dirt made it easy to overfill the scoop and as he drove up and out of the end of the trench, the front of the tractor quickly lifted off the ground. The scoop touched down and he stood up, making the front go down, but without enough weight to restore steering. Things were happening too fast for him to think about using the brakes to steer the tractor. I kept yelling for him to shut off the engine, but he probably didn't even hear me (...and I was only 14, what did I know?). Anyway, one rear wheel of the tractor caught more traction and the front of the tractor heaved around. The tractor headed back into the trench with the two right wheels in the trench and the two left ones out. At the last instant, my father realized the tractor was going to roll and jumped off the tractor. He hit the opposite bank and fell backwards into the trench as the tractor rolled over on him and started pummeling him against the ground. I simply reached over and shut off the key and with super-human strength, lifted the tractor up enough to get most of the weight off him. Then, I screamed for help at the top of my lungs until a couple of close neighbors heard me and came to help.
The short story is that my father got lucky and ended up with only a broken arm, broken ribs, and a bruised heart. It took him 6 months on-and-off of hospital time to recover.

So my suggestion is to put weight on the front of your tractor. You probably won't ever have to worry about a backflip, but that's not the only way to get hurt with a light front end. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[beenthere]

Jinman
It takes a cool head to get out of tricky predicaments, as you have described. Reminds me of one that was similar, but not as close a call as with your father. But, I think that a flip backwards is likely not the split second that was mentioned in the earlier post (at least when the tractor is in a gear that is matched to a speed normally used when pulling something heavy).
My experience was helping a neighbor pull logs up and out of a ravine. We discussed the things he could do (lower the 3pt, put in the clutch to stop forward motion, or turn off the tractor) if the front end would start to come up. He was (he claimed!) an ex jet fighter-pilot and had a lot of emergency, cool-head, training. So, when pulling a log out, it caught on another tree or rock and the front of the tractor started coming up. I was about 15 ft to the side, and watched him (big eyes first, stand up second, leap off the tractor third) panic and forget everything we had talked about. When he leaped, I walked to the tractor before it reached the "straight up" position, and turned off the ignition. The engine stopped and turned backwards as the front end lowered itself back to the ground. There had to have been at least three seconds or more (I think more) of time to react to the front end coming up. Way more time than "a split" second as has often been mentioned. Best to avoid the need for this type of action, but its also best to know what to do if it ever happens.
Our young men and women in Iraq are being tested a lot at this time. They certainly seem to be well prepared and very cool and calm while in great danger.

 

[RoyJackson]

"But, I think that a flip backwards is likely not the split second that was mentioned in the earlier post (at least when the tractor is in a gear that is matched to a speed normally used when pulling something heavy). "

That 1½ second time came from a number of web sites that discuss tractor safety...never saw a back flip myself, but if you calculate the RPM of the drive wheels in a given gear, I reckon you'll find it close to the mark.
Most rear roll overs are due to rigging a dragging load too high on the tractor (above the axle or drag link). The one I noted...the tractor rotating around the rear axle with the drive wheels frozen to the ground...was just the most exceptional incident I read about.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Makes one appreciate the new tractors even more - in both of the cases described above, the operator stood up -- if I did that on mine, it would instantly shut off. In fact, the safety switch on the seat is so sensitive that if I lift one side of my rump a little to look around the side of the FEL, it shuts off.

 

[herbenus]

When I see some of the old tractors with rear wheels taller than the tractor, I can understand the problem they had with flipovers. Not as big a concern with compacts but still a concern. There's a thread here and a website somewhere on the proper technique for going up a hill and down. I think it's always with rear to higher point. That way it can't flip.

Here's a link to safety on hillsides. I'm not endorsing this, just offering for information.

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/kb13/ans_hillsides.htm

 

[Soundguy]

my 1700 with a 30" scoop makes the front end light. I added about 180 lbs of weight and that makes it pretty acceptable.. I can see where your 14o1 gets light.

While i do think the toplink would fold under the full weight of the tractor, I think the geometry of the 3pt would stop the tractor before the tractor is verticle enough to put full weight on the toplink.... Given this.. as long as the toplink can hold sufficient weight for the tires to break traction.. that will determine the maximum verticle angle the tractor could acheive...At that point you're praying anyway, as either way its going to be a rough trip.. as when the tractor comes down... the foot is probably gonna be off the clutch during the bounce... I don't even want to think about that...

Soundguy

 

[tonyw]

Mark, I can feel your pain--at least, I've had the same scary experience with my 1401d. I also have a 24" scoop and have done wheelies before without front weights...it's a bad feeling to think of having my wife or 5 year old come out and find me squashed under my tractor. Even though flippimg over completely may not happen with a scoop on the rear, it's still not a good feeling! I added close to 100 pounds which has made a big difference in the way my 1401d handles...probably wouldn't hurt to add more. Those few scares have made me more cautious, especially since what happened last week in my area. A man pulling logs with an old Ford 5n flipped backwards and was killed less than 2 miles from my house last week..he had just bought the tractor 2 weeks earlier. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif