Newbie buying a NEW tractor- UT or CUT, that is the question

Horridfiber · Mar 29, 2015

Hi Guys-
Would really like some practical advice from real users and owners to sort out the info that is biased and being shelled out by the dealerships I meet with.
I own skidoos, ATV's, boats, 66 mustang'; I can drive standard, but have never owned or driven in a tractor.
I will buy new, no cab, front loader, possibly disc, tiller, and trailer.

Property & Requirements:

100 acres, rough, rocky, hilly, sloping, mixed bush, shallow soil, was an old farm's bush lot. Hardwood mostly with some smaller cedar and hemlock groves.
Some small ravines and cuts that are brutal even for an ATV to climb. Some small creeks and wet areas but mostly forest and dry.
This property is 3 miles away from my house. Tractor will be stored at the house, so needs to able to run the road.
We are having a bulldozer groom some of the old logging trails to provide access on the 100 acres, and flatten the trails for safer access.

Uses:

farm maple syrup- need to access at least 20 acres throughout the year- so traction in 3' of snow on the trails is crucial
firewood and logs- cutting firewood and pulling a few logs out for milling. Long term will just be firewood vs full-on logging
Deer food plotting- approx. 6-7 areas that are 1 to 2 acres in size, scattered throughout the property for food plots.
Would like to plant clovers, turnips, pumpkins, sunflowers etc. Food plots vs gardens, so hoping to only have a few attachments to own.

Tractor:

Choices so far: JD 5075e, CaseIH Farmall 75c, Kubota6060.

Questions:

1. What is more rugged long term to use Hydrostatic or synchro ?
2. Do I really need a Utility tractor, they seem like huge machines ? Would a compact tractor be too undersized ?
3. In Ontario , Canada we have to pay 13% tax on a tractor less than 60 HP- so often the Utility tractors often cost less in the final pricing.

mddorange · Mar 29, 2015

:welcome:
To TBN from Alabama. For 100 acres with that type property and what you want to do, I think that you would find a CUT too small fast.

Horridfiber · Mar 29, 2015

Can you explain why a CUT would be too small ?
Just trying to learn more here; not questioning your response.

Is it too small because it would take multiple trips to complete a single task; lack of traction, too slow to commute the 3 miles ?
Thanks

DHD · Mar 29, 2015

A UT will likely have more ground clearance than a CUT, and you have described some pretty rough terrain.
A UT would be more ruggedly built also.

TripleR · Mar 29, 2015

I can sure see the reason it's hard to decide as really a bigger CUT like an L6060 or its equivalent in Kioti, JD, Massey etc. and an M60/7060 or equivalent will work.

I use an L5740HSTC and M8540HDC, so I have pretty close to the range of tractors at which you are looking and there is often a lot of overlap in capabilities. I am using the L6060 because of your tax structure not because a smaller/less powerful unit won't work.

We love our 5740, but our UT is a smoother riding machine than the with more stability on slopes and crossing ditches streams etc. Of course it has more power, but it's not as big of an issue as the other things unless you are running a big cutter or other device off the PTO needing the power.

The added FEL strength really comes in handy when moving big objects, but it's not a make or break if you don't need it.

The hydraulic shuttle shift is very easy to use though not as easy as an HST, so while I prefer the HST it is only by a slight margin.

We will all have different opinions, but for a piece of land and the things you will be doing, I would "probably" go with a CUT, "but" I might change my mind if I actually spent some time on your land, sorry I couldn't be more definitive.

I regularly drive my 5740 four miles between farms and it's not a problem.

Citydude · Mar 29, 2015

Horridfiber said:
Hi Guys- Would really like some practical advice from real users and owners to sort out the info that is biased and being shelled out by the dealerships I meet with. I own skidoos, ATV's, boats, 66 mustang'; I can drive standard, but have never owned or driven in a tractor. I will buy new, no cab, front loader, possibly disc, tiller, and trailer. Property & Requirements: 100 acres, rough, rocky, hilly, sloping, mixed bush, shallow soil, was an old farm's bush lot. Hardwood mostly with some smaller cedar and hemlock groves. Some small ravines and cuts that are brutal even for an ATV to climb. Some small creeks and wet areas but mostly forest and dry. This property is 3 miles away from my house. Tractor will be stored at the house, so needs to able to run the road. We are having a bulldozer groom some of the old logging trails to provide access on the 100 acres, and flatten the trails for safer access. Uses: farm maple syrup- need to access at least 20 acres throughout the year- so traction in 3' of snow on the trails is crucial firewood and logs- cutting firewood and pulling a few logs out for milling. Long term will just be firewood vs full-on logging Deer food plotting- approx. 6-7 areas that are 1 to 2 acres in size, scattered throughout the property for food plots. Would like to plant clovers, turnips, pumpkins, sunflowers etc. Food plots vs gardens, so hoping to only have a few attachments to own. Tractor: Choices so far: JD 5075e, CaseIH Farmall 75c, Kubota6060. Questions: 1. What is more rugged long term to use Hydrostatic or synchro ? 2. Do I really need a Utility tractor, they seem like huge machines ? Would a compact tractor be too undersized ? 3. In Ontario , Canada we have to pay 13% tax on a tractor less than 60 HP- so often the Utility tractors often cost less in the final pricing.

Are the tractors you listed your choices or the dealers choices?

Horridfiber · Mar 29, 2015

Dealers suggestions based upon my intended use.
I believe their choices are slightly influenced by spiffs, commissions, and what is in stock vs what would be ideal for me.

Citydude · Mar 29, 2015

Horridfiber said:
Dealers suggestions based upon my intended use. I believe their choices are slightly influenced by spiffs, commissions, and what is in stock vs what would be ideal for me.

So what would be ideal for you?

Deerherd · Mar 29, 2015

First off welcome to TBN! I do pretty much what you are looking to do on my place so I think I can be of assistance!

For what you describe and the 13% savings you stated, get a utility tractor with a synchro or power shuttle, definitely R1 AG tires. I'm not aware of many 60+hp tractors with hydrostatic drive.

Since you really don't want to be trading it in after the first year anyways, buy a cab tractor to start. Just the thought of a dead of winter three mile road hike, work for untold hours and a three mile hike back makes me shiver violently!

Also you need a snow plow. I go "off road" a lot in the winter and navigating 3 feet of snow on a regular basis will get you one thing for sure, and that's stuck. I plow miles of trails in the winter. Did I mention you should really get a cab? &#55357;&#56835;

I plant about 20 acres of food plots a year, corn, soybeans, turnips, clover etc. Here is that same food plot I plow to in the above picture in the summer and about a month ago with 20+ deer in it.

Plowing, discing, and spraying round-up can be a dusty and hot plus who really wants to be breathing round-up? Who would want the comfort of an air conditioned filtered cab and who wants to make a three mile trip home in a downpour? Turn on the wipers and stereo and ride home with a huge grin on your face but turn down the air conditioning, it's getting a little chilly in here......

Utility tractor, color of your choosing but with a cab is my vote! Good luck in your search!

Horridfiber · Mar 29, 2015

Great Pics- Those deer are sure pounding the turnips.
Do you need a snow plow even with a bucket ? Just easier to push the snow with a plow vs push and then dump with the bucket.....

Ag tires or Industrial ?

flusher · Mar 29, 2015

4WD, hydrostatic tranny, 60 hp (pto) minimum, low center of gravity and wide wheel track for stability on your hilly, uneven ground.

IMHO your biggest concern should be tractor safety and stability on steep, uneven, snow-covered trails. I'd consider installing a set of rubber tracks on your tractor for work in the woods during winter.

File:New Holland T5060, rubber tracks, snow plow 1.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Ontario and no cab--that does not compute.

Good luck and be careful out there.

Deerherd · Mar 29, 2015

Horridfiber said:
Great Pics- Those deer are sure pounding the turnips.
Do you need a snow plow even with a bucket ? Just easier to push the snow with a plow vs push and then dump with the bucket.....

Ag tires or Industrial ?

Ag tires no question, and it's over a 1/2 mile just around that one field and I do over two miles total so a plow is the only way to go. A bucket would take forever.

Those are soybeans they want this time of year, not turnips. Cheers!

ovrszd · Mar 29, 2015

I recommend a Utility class tractor. They are so much more stable and comfortable on uneven terrain.

I do not use a cab tractor because I'm in timber so much. But I don't live as far North as you so you'll hafta figure that one out.

I started with a CUT tractor. I realized early on that I was requiring that tractor perform tasks that were above it's abilities. I sold it and moved up to a Utility class. That better suits me.

My Kubota M9540 runs 22mph down the road so roading it a few miles is no problem. The FEL is a beast and will do work that you'd never think possible. The unit weighs almost 11K lbs. I paid $43.5K for it new with loader, triple hydraulics on the rear, 3rd function hydraulics on the front, radial R1 AG tires. I later added dual speed PTO.

Trillium Farm · Mar 29, 2015

Horridfiber: I think that a CUT/4WD of about 50hp would be ideal for your farm as you need maneuverability and low centre of gravity for your hills and woods. The tractors you mentioned are all in the 75hp much more than you need. OTOH if you are below 60hp the HST cuts in, so it's hatd to say, but I wouldn't go with something too big or bulky

Deerherd · Mar 29, 2015

My take on the cab for the woods is this. Unless you run with your ROPS down, there really is no difference in height of limbs you have to clear to keep them from hitting your tractor. On some tractors the ROPS on a open station is higher than a cab. I can easily walk along my woods trails and trim any limb that would hit my tractor with my "chainsaw on a stick".

Secondly I operate my tractor the majority of the time alone. Cutting trees, skidding logs etc and if something should fall, snap back or whatever I am much more protected in the cab. A limb that might break/crack the glass or dent the roof is much easier to get repaired than losing an eye or worse. It's why I carry extra insurance.

And not for nothing dealing with the mosquitoes, biting black and horse flies and the unseen ground nests of bees and wasps is better with a cab. There is a six week period you can't even enter my woods without losing a quart of blood to the biting flies! It's a non-issue with the cab.

There is only so much time where the weather cooperates that I can get things done and the cab gives me that ability to do it comfortably and safely.

ovrszd · Mar 29, 2015

Deerherd said:
My take on the cab for the woods is this. Unless you run with your ROPS down, there really is no difference in height of limbs you have to clear to keep them from hitting your tractor. On some tractors the ROPS on a open station is higher than a cab. I can easily walk along my woods trails and trim any limb that would hit my tractor with my "chainsaw on a stick".

Secondly I operate my tractor the majority of the time alone. Cutting trees, skidding logs etc and if something should fall, snap back or whatever I am much more protected in the cab. A limb that might break/crack the glass or dent the roof is much easier to get repaired than losing an eye or worse. It's why I carry extra insurance.

And not for nothing dealing with the mosquitoes, biting black and horse flies and the unseen ground nests of bees and wasps is better with a cab. There is a six week period you can't even enter my woods without losing a quart of blood to the biting flies! It's a non-issue with the cab.

There is only so much time where the weather cooperates that I can get things done and the cab gives me that ability to do it comfortably and safely.

Don't get me wrong, I'm jealous of you cab guys during inclement weather.

Everyone's uses are different. I cannot use a cab in my timber doing the work I expect my tractor to do. Has nothing to do with overall height.

TSO · Mar 29, 2015

First, congrats on your property! 100 acres is a nice size.

Second, I would absolutely agree 100% to get a cab, now. This is my fourth tractor and finally my first cab... I won't go back to open station on my primary tractor!

I work in the woods too, and I will tell you that my cab has probably saved me from losing an eye and probably a few concussions as well. You will learn the dimensions of the cab real quick, and once you figure it out, it's a non issue, especially once you cut out your low hanging limbs that might cause problems.

A 50-60HP HST CUT still definitely handle the work, and I'd prefer HST on hills ... But for your sized property, I'd probably opt instead for a 60-80 HP utility tractor. A few that come to mind, which I'm familiar with, would be:

Massey 4608.
NH T4.75
LS XU5065
Kioti RX6010

The only reason I'm not listing JD or Kubota is that I'm not particularly familiar with their model numbers in this size.

I really like the Massey, but the Kioti and LS will offer the best value.

Good luck. Go sit on a bunch and tell us your opinions of how they feel to you.

TripleR · Mar 29, 2015

Cab/open station; always an interesting take by many people. Health problems made me quit operating open station some years ago and love my cab tractors, but like Richard, there are times, even with limb protectors, a cab just won't work in our woods, so my brother or one of my sons has to bring up one of our open station tractors from another farm and load off into the brush. Yes, it requires some ducking and dodging. We have close to 200 acres in woods and trimming it is just not doable. The brush protectors on my cab can just as easily be added to an open station and another member fabricated some for his FOPS.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/302353-brush-guard-cab-tractor.html?highlight=

Now if I had to have only one tractor, it would be cabbed, but a lot of the stuff I do isn't absolutely necessary.

paulfun9 · Mar 29, 2015

My vote is for the Utility tractor with a shuttle or power shuttle based on your description and overall size of the property. Having both a borderline utility machine in HST and a true utility tractor in shuttle not to mention an Industrial unit with a shuttle my experience is the shuttle/power shuttle with at least 60 HP would be what I would be looking for.

ovrszd · Mar 29, 2015

paulfun9 said:
My vote is for the Utility tractor with a shuttle or power shuttle based on your description and overall size of the property. Having both a borderline utility machine in HST and a true utility tractor in shuttle not to mention an Industrial unit with a shuttle my experience is the shuttle/power shuttle with at least 60 HP would be what I would be looking for.

Yep. Will work circles around an HST CUT.