New here w/ Ford 861

[Soundguy]

big one on the end is armature

2 smalls.. one is field.. one is ground. ground one has no insulation grommet and is simple a stud pressed into the casing. the field stud will have a rubber or phenolic insulation grommet at the casing.

positive ground means that positive is chassie, and negative is your 'hot' lead... ie.. negative goes to the starter, and is thus the hot lead.

soundguy

 

[jeff pk]

cam folower pin is likely worn and / or the lift cover linkage needs adjustment.. that is the probable lifting at only the top of the quadrant issue. 13$ top cover kit and a 2$ dowel and about 4 hours MAX time to rehab the top cover... less time if the 3pt linkages come apart easilly.

as WD said.. gravity down only.. thus if the rockshaft bushings have any crud in their bores.. they may stick up unless helped down by weight.. as long s it goes down with hand pressur eor a light inplement.. it's good to go.

on the genny.. don't assume brushes.. cuz if the vreg is bad.. the genny won't make any go juice!!

big connection is armature.. small connection is field.

motor test it.

engine off.

slip belt off genny

jump bat hot to armature and field with their wires pulled from the genny. if the genny spinds.. she will probably charge.

that lil test also poalrized her, in case for some odd reason she wasn't.

now.. if she don't spin.. take her and the vreg to a rebuilder.

if she does spin, hook back up and start her up.. if no charge at the bat, full field her by jumping bat hot to the field spade for a sec.. if charge comes up.. vreg needs attention, as field ckt is open.

if still nada, jump bat hot to armature.. .. if that makes her charge, vreg needs attention as cutout is open.

if neither help, but she did spin, jump bat hot to arm and field.. if that makes charge, then vreg field and cutout ckts are open.

soundguy

Jump tested the genny and she spun---not terribly fast but good steady clip. So then I checked the vreg field jump and there was a sharp rise in charge and she even seemed to run at 7v after for a bit. Jumped the vreg arm. and no difference. Is it worth trying to repair the vreg or should I just buy a new one for $30.00

I'd be lost without you soundguy---thanks!

 

[Soundguy]

vregs are essentially non repairable.

bypass the cutout and full field her to test that genny before you buy anything. she motor'd that's good.. but veryify she WILL charge.

on rare offacions I see ones with damaged fields that will motor due to some residual magnetism.. but won't do much charging due to no field...

 

[jeff pk]

So I hooked up the new vreg and the ammpers jumped around the gauge and then went to 0 and stayed there---6v at battery. Jumped the field connection for a sec and it started charging 8v at battery and a steady 20 ammpers at gauge. Seems to fluxuate between these two states---A) 0 gauge/6v battery and B) 20 ammpers gauge/7-8v battery. Is this normal vreg behavior?

Thanks again...

 

[Soundguy]

if the battery is low, the unit will charge at max for a while.

with nothing jumpered.. watch it.. if charge does not taper off from max, rap vret with a screwdriver handle.. see what happens..

I've had to dink witht he reg on my farmall H now and then.. same with some lucas vregs....

 

[jeff pk]

The vreg does seem to go on when I tap it---at least the guage jumps from 0 to 20.

I went to mow yesterday and was happy with the power through heavy brush. I'm running a 4' brush hog through waist high grass mixed with blackberry vines and it barely noticed. Then, after about 90 min. it started to surge and sputter, so I brought it back---barely made it home. I'm on a lot of hills, so my initial thought was that it was getting low on fuel. It seemed to run better when going down, and worse when steep up. Got it home and decided to change the oil, put in a new filter and 10w-40 oil and fired it up and saw the oil guage go between 50 at low idle to 100 at high revs---stabilized around 75-80 when it heated up. Can high oil pressure damage the engine? I'm thinking I'll change it to something thinner like 10w-30. Need to figure out the surging...

 

[Soundguy]

i run 15w40 in all mine... that said.. I think you may have a bad gauge.. or a problem with the relief valve. a red tiger should make about 55psi unless it is a claptrap.. in fact.. even at cold startup / full throttle, the relief should dump and you likely shouldn't see more than about 62 psi even on a tight engine...

as for the vreg.. might pry the case off and check the contacts.. cutout may be sticking.. or field contact may be striking off center and only hitting on a lil tiny spot, and thus carbon up. I had to tweak one in in my farmall H that way.. cheap chinese reg contacts not hitting squarely, and thus burned and carboned up fast. carefull adjust ment with some tweakum tools fixed it...

 

[jeff pk]

Pre oil change it was reading max around 50 and lowering at idle to 30ish. Is there some way to check that relief valve?

 

[Soundguy]

not easilly, except by observation.. and that requires a known good gauge.

any time I do an oil and filter change and get a DRASTIC oil pressure difference, that's a sure sign to remove that new oil filter and cut it opena nd look and see if it has come apart.

since you can get a spin on filter ( if it is a spin on ).. for as little as 3$.. it's worth it... if not a spin on... the canister is only about 7$ and still worth it...

soundguy

 

[jeff pk]

The filter I got from Yesterday's tractor is different from what was on the tractor. Also, the spin-on slot was facing down not up. So moved the slot up (says TOP on it), and will try again with another filter. They sent me a Baldwin B2 filter #D9NN6714EA or E7NN6714AA. One that was on it was Donaldson P550580. Which one is correct? I will also use the 15w-40 oil and a new guage.

Thanks Soundguy!

 

[Soundguy]

a baldwin B2 crosses over to the common filters that normally fit that tractor's spin on adapter...

Fram PH8A 4.99$
Motorcraft FL1A 3.99$
Supertech ST8A 2.99$
Napa 1452 ( though a 1515 will fit.. etc.. )
dual 300 etc...

i generally run a fram tough guard as they have that black grip media on them and are easy to get off.. or if not feeling like i need good grip.. like on a machine that has no loader.. hard to beat a motorcraft fl1a.. i mean.. it's ford right.. motorcraft? that's practically oem..

in areas where there are clearance issues.. like loader or other equipment.. the supertech st8a is a slightly shorter profile filter.

I've used just about everything crossed.. they all work fine on these old beasts.. again.. unless there is an actual defect with t he adapter plate or filter..

 

[jeff pk]

Going to pull the pan due to a leaky gasket. Any chance of checking that relief valve while the pan is off? First thing I did when the pressure spiked was to put the old filter back on---no difference, so I don't think it was the filter coming apart. New gauge is in the mail, with a drain pan plug and the screen which was missing.

Jeff

 

[Soundguy]

parts list and pic for the gear pump commonly used up till 1960 or so:

1 NLS No Longer Serviced Pump Assy., L/Screw & Cover, Replaced by P/N D1NL6600A Rotor Type Pump, Refer to Engine 6C2, When replacing Gear Type Pump W/D1NL6600A, you must also replace P/N EAF6615A with D1NL6622A, EAA6626C with C0AE662
1 1 NLS No Longer Serviced Body, Oil Pump, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
2 1 EAF66646B SHAFT Shaft, Oil Pump, Intermediate, 134", Slot Drive, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1954
2 1 EAF66646D SHAFT Shaft, Oil Pump, Intermediate, Hex Drive, Years: 01/01/1955-12/31/1960
3 1 EAA6659A GASKET Gasket, Oil Pump to Block, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
4 2 EAF6638A BOLT Bolt, Oil Pump Mounting, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
5 2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Lock, 3/8", Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
6 2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Nut, Hex, 3/8"-24, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
7 1 B9AE6674D PLUNGER Plunger, Oil Relief Valve, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
8 1 EAA6654A SPRING Spring, Oil Relief Valve, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
9 1 EAA6666A NUT Nut, Oil Relief Valve, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
10 1 CPN6600A SET OF PARTS Gear & Shaft Assy., Oil Pump Drive Gear, 134", Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1954
10 1 FPN6600A KIT Gear & Shaft Assy., Oil Pump Drive Gear, Years: 01/01/1955-12/31/1960
11 1 EAA6614B GEAR Gear, Oil Pump Driven, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
12 1 EAA6619C GASKET Gasket, Oil Pump Cover, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
13 1 EAF6616C SPARE PART Cover, Oil Pump, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
14 1 EAA6626C GASKET Gasket, Cover to Inlet Tube Flange, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
15 1 EAF6615A TUBE Screen, Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., 134" Except Offset, L/541,2111, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
15 1 EAF6615A TUBE Screen, Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., 172" Except Diesel, L/541,21111, Years: 01/01/1955-12/31/1960
15 1 B9NN6615A SCREEN Screen, Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., Diesel Except Offset, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1960
16 4 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Screw & Lockwasher Assy., HH, 5/16"-18 x 1", Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
17 1 C0NN6A661A BRACKET Bracket, Oil Pump Inlet Tube, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1960
18 1 EAF6716C TUBE Tube Assy., Oil Filter & Inlet, 134" Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
18 1 EAF6716C TUBE Tube Assy., Oil Filter & Inlet, 172" Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1955-12/31/1960
18 1 B9NN6716A TUBE Tube Assy., Oil Filter & Inlet, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1960
19 1 B9NN6A628A GASKET Gasket, Cover to Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
20 1 B9NN6A629A NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, 7/8-18 x 1/2", Hollow, Production installed Dyn. Balancer, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1959-12/31/1960
20 1 B9NN6A629B NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, 7/8-18 x 2.08", Hollow, Field installed Dyn. Balancer, 144" Diesel, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1960
20 1 B9NN6A629B NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Field installed Dyn. Balancer, 172" Diesel, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1959
20 1 EAF66738B NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1955-12/31/1960
21 1 EAF66644A SEAL PROTECTION Seal, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
1 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Nut, Tube, 7/8"-18 x 1/2", Tube to Block, W/EAF6716C After S/N NAA11291, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
1 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Connector, Standard Pipe Thread, 3/8", Tube to Block, W/Tube Assy., W/Nut Assembled at Block End, Prior to S/N EAF6716C, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1960
1 CPN6600A SET OF PARTS Kit, Repair, Oil Pump, 134", NAA, NAB, Includes parts listed below, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1954
1 EAA6608C DRIVING GEAR Gear & Shaft Assy., with Slotted Shaft
1 EAA6614B GEAR Gear, Drive
1 EAA6619C GASKET Gasket, Cover
1 EAA6659A GASKET Gasket
1 EAA6626C GASKET Gasket
1 NS NOT SERVICED Ring, Snap{EAA6636A}
1 B9NN6A628A GASKET Gasket
1 FPN6600A KIT Kit, Repair, Oil Pump, Includes parts listed below, Years: 01/01/1955-12/31/1960
1 EBP6608A GEAR Gear & Shaft Assy., with Hex Shaft
1 EAA6614B GEAR Gear, Drive
1 EAA6619C GASKET Gasket, Cover
1 EAA6626C GASKET Gasket
AR EAA6659A GASKET Gasket
1 B9NN6A628A GASKET Gasket

 

[Soundguy]

parts list and diagram for rotor style oil pump used till 64.. also called a g-rotor:

AR D1NL6600A HYDRAULIC PUMP Pump Assy., Oil, L/Screen & Cover, This part is a direct replacement for C3NN6621B, When Replacing C3NN6621A, Also Use (1) D1NL6622A Cover & Inlet Tube and (1) B9NN6730A Plug, When replacing Gear Type Pump W/
1 B9NN6730A PLUG Plug, Oil Pan Drain, W/D1NL6600A, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
1 1 C1AE6604C Body, Oil Pump, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1963
1 1 C3NN6604A Body, Oil Pump, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1963-12/31/1964
1 1 C4AE6604A Body, Oil Pump, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1963-12/31/1964
2 1 EAF66646D SHAFT Shaft, Oil Pump, Intermediate, Hex Drive, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
3 1 EAA6659A GASKET Gasket, Oil Pump to Block, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
4 2 EAF6638A BOLT Bolt, Oil Pump Mounting, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
5 2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Lock, 3/8", Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
6 2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Nut, Hex, 3/8"-24, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
7 1 B9AE6674A PLUNGER Plunger, Oil Pump Relief Valve, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
8 1 86608463 SPRING Spring, Oil Pump Relief Valve, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
9 1 C2AE6A616B PLUG Plug, Oil Pump Relief Valve, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
10 1 B2AE6608A Rotor & Shaft Assy., Oil Pump Drive, 134", W/B3NN6621A, Years: 01/01/1953-12/31/1956
10 1 C0AE6608A ROTOR Rotor & Shaft Assy., Oil Pump Drive, .4935 Dia., W/C0NN6621A & C0NN-6621-B, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1963
10 1 C3AE6608B ROTOR Rotor & Shaft Assy., Oil Pump Drive, .5855 Dia., Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
11 1 C0NN6616A SPARE PART Cover, Oil Pump, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
11 1 C0NN6616B COVER Cover, Oil Pump, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Bolt, HH, 1/4"-20 x 1", Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Lock, 1/4", Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
12 1 C0AE6626A GASKET Gasket, Body to Inlet Tube Flange, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
12 1 C0NN6626A GASKET Gasket, Oil Pump Cover to Inlet Tube Flange, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
13 1 C0NN6615A COVER Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., Screen, 134" Offset Only, Start Year: 01/01/1964
13 1 C0NN6615B COVER Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., Screen, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Screw & Lockwasher, HH, 5/16"-18 x 1", Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
13 1 C0NN6622D Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., Screen, Diesel Offset Only, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
13 1 D1NL6622A COVER Cover & Inlet Tube Assy., Screen, Except Offset, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Bolt, HH, 1/4"-20 x 1.12, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Lock, 1/4", Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
14 1 C0NN6A661A BRACKET Bracket, Oil Pump Inlet Tube, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
15 1 C0NN6A628A GASKET Gasket, Cover to Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
16 1 C0NN6716B TUBE Tube Assy., Oil Filter Inlet, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
16 1 86579306 TUBE Tube Assy., Oil Filter Inlet, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
17 2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Bolt, HH, 1/4"-20 x 1.12, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
18 2 PL PROCURE LOCALLY Washer, Lock, 1/4", Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
19 1 B9NN6A629A NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, 7/8-18 x 1/2", Hollow, Production installed Dyn. Balancer, Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
19 1 B9NN6A629B NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, 7/8-18 x 2.08", Hollow, Field installed Dyn. Balancer, 172" Diesel, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1959
19 1 B9NN6A629B NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, 7/8-18 x 2.08", Hollow, Field installed Dyn. Balancer, 144" Diesel, Years: 01/01/1958-12/31/1960
19 1 EAF66738B NUT Nut, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Except Diesel, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964
20 1 EAF66644A SEAL PROTECTION Seal, Oil Filter Inlet Tube, Years: 01/01/1961-12/31/1964

 

[Soundguy]

once you have the pan off.. you can work it.

here's a tip.. the front 2 bolts on the pan are a PITA!! but can be loosened enough with a tool that you can finger them out... same going back in..

and as you likely already know.. overtightening the pan bolts just leads to a warped pan sealing flange, and extruded and riply gasket, and a bunch of oil leaks. it should be a pretty beefy cork gasket they send.. razor blade top and bottom well and use solvent of choice to clean.. I prever brake cleaner.. I also like applying a smear of permatex to the gasket... not a bead.. but a smear... helps glue it in place.. keep it from sliding all around...

 

[jeff pk]

Thanks! Got the pan off---looks like it's the first pump assembly you posted---the earlier one. Started pulling it apart, but I don't know what to look for. It looks reasonably sound. Got the valve spring out and noticed some slight wear on the side of the spring. Filter inlet tube looks like it was pinched at some point and bent back. That's as far as I got. Moving beyond my pay-grade. Do yoe think I should remove and inspect the pump as per the book, which calls for a spring tension measure which I'm not set-up for. It seems like most problems come from low pressure, not high.

 

[Soundguy]

you are quite obviously making plenty of pressure..

 

[Soundguy]

i'd start by making sure the plunger moves smoothly, and there is now wear in the bore it rides, and spring is not too long or stiff. I unfortunately do not have a spring length offhand. it may ( probably ) is listed in the service manual.. which again.. I do not have handy..

i'll go post on the ford forum and see if anyone has a spring length handy...

 

[Soundguy]

no spring length info.. but as all of us came to the conclusion.. it didn't grow or get any stronger on it's own.

did the relief pluger act stuck in any way.. even the slightest grit or debris mah have stopped it... that wear on the spring has us wondering too... i think I'd replace it

 

[jeff pk]

I'll post back when I get it apart---I haven't taken the pump out yet, just fiddled with it in place, and can't get at the plunger while it's still attached. I got scared with the odd description in the manual of needing to pry out the two "tapered bolts" in the block, and on installation "the hollow head bolts are of special design having tapered shoulders"...