New Driveway Construction

[FF117]

I started dirt work for our new driveway today. It will be approximately 1200 feet to our future home site. I plan on doing the dirt work, compacting with tractor (or a sheep foot compactor), installing 200 lb driveway fabric, covering with 8 inches of 1 inch minus rock (as recommended by the manufacturer), then compacting using a vibrating roller compactor. This is by far the largest project I've attempted, but I figure that if it's too much I'll just hire the rest out. Nothing lost other than my time and some fuel. First step was trying to remove the top soil/grass. This was more difficult than I anticipated because the grass has deep roots. I used the rippers on the box blade to loosen everything up, used the rear blade to windrow the topsoil to the downhill side, then piled it up with the loader. After the top soil was moved, I began scraping soil from the high side of the hill to fill in the low spot at the entrance. The driveway will be located just left of pile of top soil. The shiny area is a knob that I'm scraping dirt from in order to fill the entrance area. There will be a ditch on the uphill side to direct water to the ditch near the county road. If you look close at the last pic there are a couple visitors that walked by to see what I was doing. Like I said, this is my first shot at something like this. I've read a lot of threads and publications, but I'm definitely no expert, so suggestions are appreciated.

Many thanks to Brian at Fit-Rite Hydraulics for setting me up with a top n'tilt setup. I used the heck out of it today. There's no way I would try to tackle this without it.

 

[redman135]

Several points in no particular order.
1)You will need a culvert to pipe water from the high side to flow under the drive.
2) you will need a drain on the top side of your drive. It is surprising how much water you need to drain away after heavy rain.
3) Allow about a yard for your drain/ (batter or bank above drain is extra and dictated by the natural shear/collapse angle of the soil type.) plus the drive width (unstated) plus another yard on the low side from edge-of-gravel to edge -of-fill. Larger if fencing low side of track or you will feel crowded by the fence.
4) Does your blade have angle and side tilt? needed for topside drain. If not use digger / backhoe.
5) good gravel thickness. Is this going to be a gravel drive or sealed later?
6) what is "1inch minus rock" It seems to be an american term.

 

[Egon]

As mentioned provide for drainage.

Why do you need fabric? Save some money. Spend it on a thicker gravel base.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

6) what is "1inch minus rock" It seems to be an american term.

1" minus is she stone that will pass a 1" screen.

As mentioned provide for drainage.

Why do you need fabric? Save some money. Spend it on a thicker gravel base.

You can use less stone with fabric. If stone is hard to get in that area, or the ground quality for the subbase is poor, it could be much cheaper to use fabric.

 

[Egon]

1" minus is she stone that will pass a 1" screen.


You can use less stone with fabric. If stone is hard to get in that area, or the ground quality for the subbase is poor, it could be much cheaper to use fabric.

Didn't see any bogs in the picture. Still require a certain amount of granular material to compact and bridge.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm not a fan of fabric either. It's become one of those things that seem to be recommended on a regular basis here without any particular reason for doing so. Why are you using such a small stone? How thick are you going with your rock?

The secret to a long lasting road, or driveway, is to plan for worse case scenario for water, Then to compact your dirt properly. Sounds like you are doing that with a sheepsfoot roller. That is the best!!! Then to put down the proper rock at least 4 inches thick, with six inches being better. Then water the rock really good!!!

Once it's done, never, every go over it again. Just drive on it and when you notice a pot hole or low spot developing, fix that spot. Never regrade or drag it to pull rock from an area that is perfectly fine to try and fix a bad spot. This is the worse thing you can possibly do to a gravel road!!!!

 

[BuilderML]

You can look at it 2 ways with fabric. First your saving alot by doing it yourself so you can spend more on material. 2nd if you do end up with problems later you'll say **** wish i would have. Its not something you can install after the fact. My personal view on fabric is it all depends on the soil you are going over. If your on gravel i personally wouldn't use it, Over clay yes i would use it and also in wetland areas. For example i do have a 1200' driveway with no fabric but i do have a long section that runs thru wetlands. I wish i would have used the fabric just in the wetland areas. Even not doing so its still not to bad. Your driveway looks like you won't have an issue with standing water. Your issue is you'll be creating a d.a.m.n. by installing your driveway. So i would suggest you install culverts in your low spots so that the water doesn't get stuck on the high side. Of course when doing your ditch on the high side your ditch should naturally run to the culverts. One word of advice is do not try to fight the water, work with it and let it run to where its going to go and install a culvert in that area to get it across. Looks like you have your work cut out for you so get to it.:drink:

 

[FF117]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am going with the fabric because at $225 for 15 tons of rock it seemed that it will probably pay for itself over time. The cost of the fabric was just over $1000 after shipping so if it saves me 5 loads of rock over the next 10 years I'll be happy. Common practice here is to lay down 3 inch rock, let construction traffic compact, then top dress. I know several people who have done this and they still have to add rock every couple of years. A contractor that I trust also suggested using the fabric.

I'm still not sure what's going to happen with the pipe. The county here installs pipe near the roadway, I guess they don't want you messing up their roads/ditches. I had the road commissioner come out and he said that I don't need a pipe and he wouldn't use one. It's hard to tell in the pictures, but on the uphill side the water will hit the driveway and be directed toward the county road, into the ditch and be carried away without crossing the driveway. This is all assuming that I make a substantial channel for the water so that it won't cross the driveway. I've included a topographical map with arrows showing where the water should flow and the proposed driveway route. The total drainage area that runs toward the driveway is 1/2 acre. I'm hoping to get some rain after the dirt work is done so that I can see the water flow and decide if a pipe is necessary prior to putting any rock down.

A couple of pics from yesterday. Only had a few hours to work but hopefully it's starting to look right. I hope to hit it hard this weekend.

 

[oosik]

Like you said, looks like you have a good pair of "supervisors" - post #1 - far right picture. I'm sure they will keep you on the straight 'n narrow and not let you go wrong.:laughing::laughing:

 

[FF117]

Got about 8 hours of seat time today. Almost done with the entrance, working more now near the top of the hill. The top soil up there is really thick and very time consuming to remove. Still have some work to do on the ditch and some final grading. Hard to tell in the pics but the ditch it pretty deep, just need to widen it a bit. Might get some rain tonight so we'll see how it performs. Does anyone know how much compaction I should expect? I want to make sure I build up enough in areas so that it's the right height after compaction. The compactor I've reserved is a 2.5 ton double drum sheep's foot roller.

 

[farmer2009]

Around here after compaction they still figure an inch of settle per foot of fill.

 

[vtsnowedin]

If your asking how much a loose layer will compact it varies too much from one material to another to give you a good answer. The tighter the better so if it comes out low add on more and compact it again.
Assuming your aerial map is orientated North up I think you should add a drive pipe where the 680 contour line crosses your drive. The sooner you dump collected water into the gully to the south the better. Yes it would go along that 680 line north to the culvert under the county road but you would be diverting water that now goes to the gully and might overwhelm that culvert.
Another culvert up mid drive near where 710 crosses would also be a good idea to reduce the amount you collect between culverts.
As to the fabric question. In my experience (40 years of road construction) a geotextile does about the same job as an eight inch layer of clean sand and usually costs as much installed as the sand would.
If your over wet mucky mud you can't dig out you might go with fabric but if you are on firm subsoil and want a thicker frost resistant layer go with the sand.
The one inch minus stone is fine and if any thing I'd go a little thicker and chink it with some clean sand to tighten up the top surface.
Looks like a very good start on your project. Enjoy!

 

[FF117]

I was taking a break today and looking at the driveway about where the 710 contour line crosses and was thinking the same thing you mentioned. The ditch on the north side of the road doesn't have any place to empty until it reaches the county road and by that time it could flood my driveway during a good rainstorm. Maybe another option is to cut a small ditch near the top of the hill to direct water over the north side of the hill? It wouldn't have to be very long because the driveway is pretty much on the ridgeline. I made another picture to show what I mean. As for the pipe near the county road I am planning on calling the county Monday to have the road commissioner meet me out there sometime this week to voice my concerns.

I've already purchased the geotextile fabric, so I'm pretty much committed to using it. I did a lot of research before deciding to use it. Most of the negative feedback I found regarding the fabric revolved around the fact that it is expensive. I shopped around and got what I feel was a pretty good price and I figure that I'll never be able to add it later, so it seems worth a try. I'll have to let you know in a year or two if I have trouble. The reason for the 1 inch minus rock with 10-15% fines is because that's what the salesman recommended. He said to use 6-8 inches, but I figure on having 8-10 to be safe. If you guys have other suggestions for aggregate over fabric please let me know.

Hopefully the dirt doesn't compact a bunch because I don't want to have to go back and move a bunch more. I could probably live with an inch per foot, thanks for the suggestion.

Got about another 8 hours in today and had a couple of setbacks. Pretty much working on the top of the hill now and there is a LOT of topsoil. I really struggled with the first section on top of the hill due to the topsoil depth of 12 inches in some places. It seems like I have to move 3 times as much dirt as I should. My wife came out late today and we were looking at the area we have staked out for the house. Of course, we started thinking of some other options and we ended up moving the stakes. Hopefully I haven't gone too far with the driveway yet....

Struggled so much with the topsoil today that I'm going to try a different method for the next section, hence the picture where I started cutting on the sides with grass in the middle.

 

[vtsnowedin]

If you move your ditch back to the 710 crossing you can direct it to the small gully north of where you placed your arrow and use that already established vegetated water way. If you ditch where you have the arrow you will get a new unnecessary gully. Is the white area in the center of the picture a dry pond?

 

[FF117]

That's a good point about creating a new gully. I may do that to relieve some pressure on the ditch to the west of that point. The white area is a full pond now. It was still new when this image was taken.

 

[vtsnowedin]

What do the snow drifts look like on that field in the winter?

 

[FF117]

What do the snow drifts look like on that field in the winter?

They can get pretty big, but usually the ridgeline isn't too bad.

 

[FF117]

Well I found out why it doesn't pay to do things yourself. I was using the box blade to scrape dirt from the high side to build up a portion of the driveway. I was pulling the dirt down the hill and dropping it in the middle of the driveway, then backing up the hill. When I went from forward to reverse I heard a pop and the tractor stopped moving. The transmission will start to whine (hydrostat), but the tractor will move about a half inch then stop and make a popping/grinding sound. It won't move in forward or reverse and it won't even roll while in neutral. I was able to jack up the rear end and the rear tires will turn while off the ground, but it sounds like something is broke off in the rear end. I used the loader to lift the front tires and they turn also. I'm pretty confident working on a vehicle, but a hydrostat tractor is over my head, especially with something that sounds this serious. Of course it happened in a really bad spot and I'm not going to be able to get it loaded, so guess it's a call to the dealer in the morning. To add insult to injury the drivetrain warranty ran out less than two months ago. Looks like I'll probably have to hire the rest out.

As for the driveway progress, I spent most of the day on the top of the hill removing sod, then I worked on the ditch further down the hill. A friend stopped by to check my progress. He built our pond a few years ago, so I was looking forward to getting his opinion. He said some of the same things you guys already mentioned. He also suggested making the ditch a little wider so that there isn't as much erosion. After working on this for a few days now I have a new appreciation for those who move dirt for a living.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Your tractor breaking down really bites. I can't see how doing that work should have over stressed anything.
As to the snow drifts. Take care that the finished drive is above the grade of the old ground on either side so the wind sweeps snow off the drive, not dumps it into the drive. Also sense your so flat and in good dirt I'd make your ditches twelve feet wide and one foot deep so you could mow both slopes right along with your haying operation and plow snow right over them without getting stuck in a hard winter when you need to push or blow banks back.
You might have to narrow them up some in the cut sections where your changing the grade a lot but even then a four to one side slope to your ditch bottom is desirable as that allows mowing and maintaining a stable erosion resistant grass lined channel.

 

[Got2BTru]

We went 1300 feet for our driveway and I had originally thought about "trying" it myself, but glad I didn't! For the sub base, they dug down roughly 8-12" scraping off top soil to get down to a clay substrate. Then they laid geotextile fabric. After that, they added a "bony" mix that's not supposed to allow any water, etc. to drain through. Next year, we'll add a #3 Crusher Run material...I believe 6" thick.

Digging out the driveway 1300', laying the fabric and adding the sub base was $14k. Here are some pics: