Need ideas for water heater cleanout

Richard · Feb 28, 2004

We seem to have a lot of calcium in our water. Our long term plan include getting a water softner but with all the sticks we have in the fire, Mr. Budget says it’s later rather than sooner. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

On my current water heater, I’ve removed the drain spigot and replaced it with a ¾” nipple and a ¾” shut off valve (3/4” the entire way through it with no restrictions).

I hate having to replace a burnt element and at the same time, try to scoop bits & pieces of calcium deposits out of the tank using the little scoop I made.

I put the larger drain in so I could get a lot more flow & pass through the drain hoping that would help.

Today I went to drain the tank hoping I’d get (for example) 1 bucket of calcium chips blowing out the drain, rather than 2 buckets plugging everything up.

Didn’t seem to work. (or I have hardly in there)

So, I removed the hose, put a piece of clear tubing (1” ID I think) and a hose clamp to hold it on the OUTSIDE of the spigot end. This tubing was maybe 12” long and I put a bucket under it, opened the drain so I could get SOMETHING inside the tank to try to move the deposits around & get them to blow out. (there was minimal water in tank at this time)

The ¼” copper tubing I had just bent. I tried a cut section of co-axial cable and that actually seemed to work a bit. I then used my electricians fish tape and wiggled the end of it around on the inside of the tank. All the while, I still had some water seeping out the drain into the bucket I used, so THAT part worked very nice for me.

Ok..that’s sort of the painted picture.

Other than taking the element out & going through that hole, other than taking the ENTIRE tank outside like some do, I’m hoping the collective brain power here can tell me the secret, or that we can collectively come up with a simple way to allow water to drain out the tank drain at the same time something is used to “mix” the sediment in the tank to help the sediment move out the drainpipe.

This tank is (supposed to be) a self cleaning (with the supply tube going to bottom of tank and turning sideways to help the water swirl) type and my initial hope was the larger drain and the swirling water would help blow any deposits out. This process doesn’t seem to be working.

What are some ideas of a tool to put UP the ¾” opening & agitate the sediment?

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Richard

Richard · Feb 28, 2004

Hmm..I just thought of something... I wonder if I could snake my AIRHOSE up the inside, or maybe make an attachment for the hose (smaller diamater) and let the air blow around some?

Then, turn water supply back on and see if that's helped dislodge some of the sediment.

What would/could you put on end of airhose that is maybe 2' long and in a perfect world, would maybe have a 90 degree outlet on it so you could blow it sideways & "rake" it back/forth inside the tank?

Inspector507 · Feb 28, 2004

Maybe a small drill powered snake up through the pipe? or try to blow air in from a shop vac?

Might try draining it more often if it fills up that quick /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Richard · Feb 28, 2004

( Might try draining it more often if it fills up that quick )

That's a good point. I found out the hard way I have this issue. We were probably in house 2 to maybe 3 years when I first discovered this.

As it is, think that gave me a "base amount" of sediment that I can never get out because of how hard it is through that tiny hole. Couple that with the continual additions and it turns out that I need to yank the element out about once every year. My hope is/was by putting a larger drain on this, I could hopfully drain it out much more often hence, having a lower buildup.

It's certainly possible I do not have that much in there as I did a major dig at the beginning of winter...I just know that my luck doesn't run that way /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm kinda iffy on putting a dril that close to the hose with water coming out of it. (I have no idea how long a drill powerred snake is). I don't want to be on the the evening news.

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Inspector507 · Feb 28, 2004

First of all.....I'm sure you do anyway......turn off the power to the tank when draining. It will burn an element up in an instant if it has power but not submerged in water.
If the drill is plugged into an GFCI protected outlet, you're better off. Most of the smaller drill powered snakes are about 25' but you only need to feed 2-3' at the max in.
Water systems laden with minerals need the tank drained quite often, maybe every 30 days. I had a problem with my well pump sucking up sand last year. I had to install a filter to filter it out or the water softener and iron filter would get the venturi's plugged up. The only way I realized it, was the faucet screens got plugged with sand particles.

rockinmywaypa · Feb 28, 2004

You just got me to thinking. I also have the same problem maybe not so bad. My thinking is leaning more to a water to air exchanger that I want to keep clear. I wonder how much vinegar it would take mixed in with the water to dissolve the sediment in order to get it to flow out the drain and clean up the surfaces in the tank. Maybe somebody knows of a stronger acid that is still within the realms of being safe to use.

Richard · Feb 28, 2004

( I wonder how much vinegar it would take mixed in with the water to dissolve the sediment in order to get it to flow out the drain and clean up the surfaces in the tank )

Will vinegar disolve little chips of (what I belive to be) calcium? (little white chips that flaked off the elements)

Doesn't that require the unit being brought back up to temperature? (fill "X" amount of vinegar into upper element hole, close, fill with water, turn on/turn off... then drain?)

I don't know that my situation is significantly worse than any other, I just find it annoying...and I tend to put off things that annoy me /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

rockinmywaypa · Feb 29, 2004

That probly how it would have to be done. might not be a great solution [pun] to the problem.Something else on the market here is a product called CLR it removes calcium stains on coffee pots etc. which made me think of the vinegar since I boil it in the electric kettle to remove deposits which is on a smaller scale than the hot water tank.

EdKing · Feb 29, 2004

Will vinegar disolve little chips of (what I belive to be) calcium? (little white chips that flaked off the elements) 

I used to rent a mobile home before I bought my own place. The water heater was electric and the water was very hard (lots of calcium). The bottom element would burn out every six months if I didn't clean the tank very regularly. The easiest way I found to get rid of the calcium deposits was to drain the tank to just below the top element, then pour a bottle of Lime-Away in through the hole for the top element. I'd let it soak for about an hour then drain the tank completly, fill and drain it a couple of times to flush it out. The bottom drain still worked well (not clogged with calcium) for the last year I lived in the trailer. I have a natural gas water heater and much softer water at my place now, so I have had no more troubles.

Egon · Feb 29, 2004

Muratic acid may work. It should be available at hardware stores. Use protective gear when handling it. Should not have to use heat when it is in the tank working. Perhaps have nutralizing agent at hand if there is an oppsie.

Perhaps try and set up a system so you can let the acid plus water filled tank soak a few minutes/ flush system and then repeat the procedure. When finished make sure all acid has been flushed from system.

It would be best if system was set up so there is a continuous recirculating flush system set up with settling tank, screen and testing for strength of acid.

If you do a net search refering to acid pickling tanks you may get some hits on chemicals and procedures.

Egon

Junkman · Feb 29, 2004

I have the same problem with my water heater tank and have never found that draining would help much. Mine is 20+ years old now and it still works well, but when the flame comes on, it sounds like there is someone in there with a hammer banging away. I have since learned that the sediment on the bottom of the tank is like a rock and that the heat is causing it to move around. Mine is oil fired. I thought of the muriatic acid as one way, but then I decided that I was going to first try citric acid powder. I have the powder, but have yet to try it. This past fall, I purchased another heater and am going to use the original one as a back up unit to the new one. I intend to install a filter screen in the well line and make sure that the water is always soft from now on...

dieseltoys · Mar 1, 2004

I used to work in maintenance at a hotel and the four 100 gallon tanks on site would get loaded with these calcium flakes about every two years. To clean them out I would remove the bottom elements and work through the holes with a shop vac reduced down to a piece of 1" rubber heater hose. The flakes were fine enough to get picked up and I would just work the hose around randomly until I felt it was clean. A piece of bent wire was also helpful in loosening up some of the sediment. I don't think the CLR will prove strong enough to eat the flakes up, the muratic acid probably will, but you might want to try a little test on some of the flakes if you can get a few out to see what the reaction might be like first if you decide to go that route. My only concern would be too strong of a reaction with the creation of a lot of foam and fumes, you'd have to make sure you had the tank vented to prevent a pressure buildup.

Richard · Mar 1, 2004

( shop vac reduced down to a piece of 1" rubber heater hose )

Thus far, that's the method I've essentiall used. It just drives me nuts to have to turn power off, drain, take element out, tinker around, put back together & put power back on.

Because of above, I put a larger drain in (full 3/4") and am hoping that someway, I can help entice all the flakes to exit the larger hole.

My first attempt over this weekend seems to have failed, because I hardly got any chips out. As I cleaned it pretty well last fall, I might not have "that" many in there but I doubt it.

I'm not too keen on using the muratic acid routine. I was around that stuff once as a child and still recall how nasty it was to sniff.

Why do they not simply build a larger cleanout.....

TheKid · Mar 1, 2004

What if you connected the 1/4 inch copper tubing to a hose. The water pressure from the tube should stir up the sediment and the extra water should help it to flow out. You could also flatten out the tip of the tube to give it a wider pattern.

Richard · Mar 1, 2004

VERY interesting thought.

Thinking (typing) outloud here...

Flatten the tubing a bit, attach to hose, drain heater (after shutting power off), take out element, insert "pressure" sprayer into said element hole, wildly spray into bottom area of tank while also having my drain hose attached to the drain.

Velly interesting. Seems to me, if nothing else, this would "shake up" the sediment on the bottom, I could then (sigh) reattach the element...

hey... just thought of this... are those anode rods hard to remove? I think I found mine other day (been debating on replacing it) and it LOOKS like it's just a 3/4" or so hex nut?

Remove that and use that hole to spray down (much less effort than taking the #$)@#&*+ element out) It could be replaced at same time.

Might definately be worth looking into

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TheKid · Mar 2, 2004

( Remove that and use that hole to spray down (much less effort than taking the #$)@#&*+ element out) It could be replaced at same time. ) If you had a long enough piece of copper tube you could slide it inside the clear plastic hose that you attached to the spigot end. That way you could blast the sediment loose and still catch the water in a bucket without having to remove an element.

Richard · Mar 2, 2004

That is exacly what I did. I cut say, a 12" piece of tubing and aimed it to a bucket for collection and put my scraper up. I'll have to see if this works too, it would be the easiest.

I love easy

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Boiler74 · Mar 4, 2004

I'm in the rental property business, and this is one of the common problems I see. What I have found to work the best to drain a electric water heater is an air compressor. My water heaters have di-electric unions (sp), so I took one, and fitted it with a quick-coupler air connector like you would have on air tools. Then, after making sure all faucets are closed, fill the tank with 60 psi or so. This will force the water out through even very clogged drains, taking a lot of the sediment with it. It won't get it squeeky clean, but will do a lot with a minimum of trouble. Just be sure to let the pressure bleed off through the drain hose before you disconnect from the quick-coupler.

I've also started installing elements that are advertised to work even when covered with sediment. And they are lifetime guaranteed. About 3 times the cost, but if they work, they're worth it. Luckily, my local Ace will back-up that guarantee if it fails.

Hope that helps.

Richard · Mar 5, 2004

Update on my concoction...

Went to local store, bought a 1/4" (maybe 3/8") tube about 5' long. Got a coupling where I can connect it to hose. Evidently it came of the "plumbing parts for mobile homes" rack.

The gameplan so far, is.. remove water inlet nipple on top of tank. Attach drain hose to drain. Use this in up/down, sideways/anyways fashion as a high pressure sprayer while (in theory) the chips move on out the drain.

I realize they'll probably just move about on bottom of tank and not necessarily out the drain right away, but I figure, if I can at least "shake them up" they might move out easier when I put it all back together and allow the 3/4" inlet pipe to REALLY add the flow.

We'll see.

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