Need Help!!! JD 4310 transmission troubles

CraigG · Feb 3, 2004

I have a JD 4310 with the eHydro transmission. I bought the tractor new from K.C. Canary this past fall and it still only has 38 hours on it.

Problem #1
After about 15 hours I noticed hydraulic fluid on the garage floor under where the tractor was parked. After close inspection I could see that 2 of the larger bolts holding the main transmission housing together were backed out about half way. I don't know if I got it this way or they backed out during my limited use of the tractor. Anyway, I called K.C. Canary and they came and got the tractor. From what I understand since one side of the housing was tight and the other loose there was uneven pressure on the gasket causing it to fail. The tractor was split and the gasket replaced.

Problem #2
I got a call from K.C. Canary saying that my tractor was included in the recent transmission recall discussed on this board. My tractor was picked up and split for a second time. I was told it was a new transmission (not a remanufactured) and they used new hydraulic fluid instead of reusing the old like JD reccomended. I was happy about them using a new transmission and new fluid but unhappy that my tractor has now been split twice.

Problem #3
Got the tractor back and it behaves alot different. There is a lag from the time depress one of the diectional pedals to the time the tractor actually starts moving. The overall feel of the tractor is also different. New transmission replaced with a new trasmission should equal the same performance before and after the swap. However, this is not the case.

Problem #4
During a recent snow storm here in NY I was snowblowing. I got to the end of my driveway and went to turn around and I got no response from either of the directional pedals. This problem happens off and on and usually when I'm changing direction. Turning off load match does not make a difference. This problem is also independent of throttle speed.
I do get a flashed code but i always seem to miss the whole code by the time i understand what is going on. I called K.C. Canary to come pick up the tractor and the never did. This seems unusual for K.C. Canary.

I called my salesman (Mark Brucker) and told him I have had too many transmission problems for a tractor that does not even have 40 hours on it yet. If this was a car I would have a new one by now. Mark told me he would contact JD and talk to them about the situation. It's been a week and still no call back nor have they picked up the tractor to fix it.

I need advice. Is it too much to ask for a new tractor? Does the NYS lemmon law cover new tractor purchases? I bought the tractor to keep untill it died or I died. I feel that the tractors life span has been severley shortened due to the fact that its rear end has been completely taken apart now twice and possibly a third time if they ever do come and pick up the tractor. Even if I do get offered a new tractor I'm not so sure I would want it at this point. I would probally want a non ehydro transmission like on the 4110 or 4115, or even a Kubota at this point. K.C. Canary only sells JD.

Any help here would be apprectiated. Mark Brucker is a family friend and I do not want to offend him in the process.

Also, unrelated to the transmission problems but another problem I have is with the 7iron MMM. I planned on using my tractor for alot of mowing. The 4310 has turf tires and a FEL. The tractor was delivered with all attachments mounted but the wheels were set to the narrow position. This made the tractor pretty unstable on some of my small hills and the manual states to set the wheels to the widest position for any FEL or hill work. So I turned the wheels to the wide position which helped tremendously. The tractor was much more stable. However, when I put the MMM back on to mow the front tires now rub the MMM in the up and down position. I cannot steer at all. I checked all mounting positions of the MMM and nothing helps. K.C. Canary came to get the tractor to fix this problem too. They were unable to fix the situation either. Their solution was to set the rear wheels to the wide position and the front wheels to the narrow postion so they do not rub. This made the tractor more unstable on the hills then when I started. I even started to tip a very slight incline, I was able to push myself upright by pushing down with the FEL. This was too dangerous a situation so off came the MMM and the front wheels went to the wide position.

I now have a $25,000.00 lawn mower that I was only able to mow with once, has been back to the dealer 4 times and I still have problems with the trasmission and MMM. Not to metion there are only 38 hours on my tractor.

Craig /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

JerryG · Feb 3, 2004

I will get blasted for this, but here goes. Taking apart your tractor and putting it back together will in no way effect how long your tractor will last. From everything that I hear about K.C. Canary, I would trust them and not worry about it.As far as the rear wheels being set out and the fronts being set in, the width of the front wheels has very little effect on stability. The only time that the front has a lot of effect on stability is when the axle hits its limit. I wouldn't think that you have ever hit the limits of the axle. #4 does need to be looked into.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 3, 2004

DO NOT LISTEN TO JERRY - HE HAS A MASSEY. 

Just kidding, I agree with him totally. KC Canary is a great dealership. keep things friendly with them and I am sure they will make it right.

Tire ballast might help your stability, but may cause compaction. My Ag tires can go very wide, but they leave dragon footprints. Sure is stable though.

JerryG · Feb 3, 2004

DO NOT LISTEN TO JERRY - HE HAS A MASSEY. 
Gee I knew that I would get it, but not that bad /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Woodbeef · Feb 3, 2004

Well usually true,Jerry.....But I can see his point also. If it is not correctly reassembled then there could be trouble down the road. Brand new and untouched from the factory does not always mean it could not be assembled wrong either though.....So I guess it is a crap-shoot either way!!!!

yellowsocks93 · Feb 3, 2004

Dang Deeres these days. Did I call it or what on this series being problem prone!

Kyle_in_Tex · Feb 3, 2004

Welcome aboard Craig, sorry that it has to be under these circumstances. Its good that you put so much info into your post. Many people only sign up to complain about something in their 1st or 2nd post and it can be hard to believe if they are for real or not starting some kind of "Brand" war disseminating bad info.
#1 &#2), Can't offer any advice except for whatever K. C. told you. Seems to be a very, very strange strange situation. Makes me wonder if they had already done the recall (before you took delivery) and somehow forgotten to tighten up all the bolts???

#3)Yes, there should be a very short lag time but not too long. It could be related to #4. Could it possibly be related to this cold weather??? Oil behaves differently when cold. I must confess, I haven't been on my tractor below 50 degrees this year yet, but if I do, I'll make a note to see if there is any delay.

#4) My tractor is a "pre-recall" purchased in Oct 2002. The only time I get any confusion out of the tranny is when I confuse it with my big ole boot hitting both pedals simultaneously or trying to reverse my direction before letting my machine come to a stop or nearly stopped.

Hopefully, your family friend Mark will do what it takes to make you happy. It seems by your writing that you are not going to be happy unless they give you another machine. To be fair, JD owes you whatever the warranty prescribes, but I think they should go a bit further given the circumstances. Maybe free extended warranty for an extra year or something???
This is the 1st I've read about an MMM conflicting with tires, has anyone else heard about this??? If you take off the FEL while mowing sides of slopes, you'll lower your center of gravity. Are your tires filled partially? This too can help. What angle are the slopes your attempting to mow?
Keep us posted...Kyle

Heath · Feb 3, 2004

I'm a little surprised to read the comment about the 4000ten series of cuts to be prone to any more problems than any other series of tractors....
I have a 4110 and have used it about 10 hours this winter in temperatures ranging from -15 to 20 degrees and have had NO problems. The 4110 does not have the e-hydro, but I still have not had a single problem in at least 3-4 hours of hard usage in a below zero environment in the last 10 days.
It definitely sounds like the tractor inquestion in this thread has a few issues, but I using this single tractor to make an example out of an entire series seemd a little ridiculous to me.
Are the concerns with this series performance related? Or are there a lot of unfounded concerns with the expanded use of non-steel and electronic components?
I know I'm ranting a little now, but I think it's kind of funny how ANY advancement in technology or engineering is almost always met with "I told you so...." whenever anything goes wrong with the new machine.
Did I mention I LOVE my 4110?
Heath

Tractors4u · Feb 3, 2004

( I even started to tip a very slight incline, I was able to push myself upright by pushing down with the FEL. )

I have to ask, What is your definition of a slight incline? It would take quite a bit of incline to tip the tractor to the point of hitting the front axle stop and needing the loader to right the tractor. How high was the loader when you tipped? The other poster was right, reversing the front wheels usually does not have much affect on stability. I have a 4310 with R4's that would give me about the same tread width you have and I have been on what I would consider some pretty steep angles without lifting a wheel yet. No loaded tires either.

cef2lion · Feb 3, 2004

I had an '02 4310 with the 60" MMM and turf tires. I tried to reverse the front wheels to get a wider stance. When I did this one tire rubbed the MMM where it's caster mounted to the MMM. I took the deck off and tried driving it. It seemed so much more stable on hills. I called my dealer and they checked with Deere and they said they wouldn't recommend moving the front turf tires out like that. They said it could put extra strain on the front axle. Since it rubbed I didn't have a choice anyway and I didn't want to effect the warranty. I was thinking you might be able to turn the wheels out if you had the 72" deck. I traded my 4310 for a 4410 and the 72" deck but never revisted this.

On the lag in direction change. I seem to recall having this issue with my 4310 and mentioned it to the dealer when they picked up my 4310 and dropped off my 4410. The lag for me could be noticed more in A range and also when load match was on. I didn't seem to notice this when I first got the tractor but appeared shortly after the 50 hour service. I have not noticed this at all with my '03 4410.

One thing that has happened with my 4410 recently. It has been very cold the past week or so. I store it in a unheated garage. A couple times out clearing snow I noticed that the 4WD was not engaged even though the switch and light were on. In a minute or so it started working. The other day I had a much longer delay and I got stuck in the process. I used the FEL to back me up a bit to free myself. This time it took much longer for it to engage. It has not happened since.

Craig

rockyridgefarm · Feb 3, 2004

I'm a little surprised to read the comment about the 4000ten series of cuts to be prone to any more problems than any other series of tractors.... 

You mean this one? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 Dang Deeres these days. Did I call it or what on this series being problem prone! 

This is just the refrain to the song... A little surprising from an employee of a Deere dealership!

From the bio:
Occupation: Lot boy & parts department at JD store/Also a student in last year of High School

You do the math...

CraigG · Feb 4, 2004

Thanks for all the posts. I did talk to Mark Brucker today and he said the area Deere rep will be at K.C. Canary next week. So I will wait till then. Also, it appears that K.C. Canary reads this forum. I got a message from Jason in the service department about my post

I have to say that I have been nothing but happy with everyone from K.C. Canary. They treat me just like I bought 15 Ag tractors from them when in reality this is my first tractor and I have asked more than my fair share of questions. If you want a JD you can't go wrong with K.C. Canary.

I'm not saying that there is problem with JD tractors or the 4010 series tractors for that matter. I think the tractor I have has way too many problems for a brand new tractor. Also, I am confident that all my problems have been fixed or will be fixed by the service department. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have had no problems at all with their JDs. Those people got what they paid for. I did not! The tractor has been back 4 times and needs to go for a fifth. If this was a car it would have been bought back by the manufacturer already.

JerryG,
I disagree with you about spliting the tractor. I feel it does effect the long term life of the tractor. When machinery is assembled in a factory most times the assembly is automated and assembly jigs are used to exact tolerences. This is not true when the tractor is disassembled and reassembled in a service deparment. Everytime you take anything apart you shorten its life span. Metal and plastic both have elastic properties and subject to fatigue a failure. If a dealer had two new 4310s (same price) on the lot and told you one is perfect and the other one has been taken apart and put back together twice by the service department which one would you buy? I say my $25000 entitles me to the perfect one. We are not talking about a minor part being replaced here. This is the hydro transmission.
Also, the seat of my pants told me that when the front wheels were in the wide position the tractor was much more stable on the hills. I also tested this by driving sideways on the hill very slowly and rocked the tractor. With the front wheels out the tractor did not budge, with the front wheels in a was able to rock the tractor alot.

Rockyridge(Mike),
I do not have tire ballast because one of the main reasons for this purchase was to mow. This would make the tractor way to heavy down by the water. It would leave huge ruts. I do have a rear ballast box filled with gravel though and I do use this most of the time.

Yellowsocks(Nick),
Like I said above, I am not complaining about JD tractors as a whole. Just my tractor in particular.

Kyle,
Thanks for the welcome. I have posted before when I was trying to figure out which tractor to buy. For some reason I was deleted from the forum. The lag in pedal response was not there before the transmission was replaced. This could be a break-in issue. Also hitting both pedals was suggsted as being a problem to me by the dealer. However, this has also happened while I am driving forward and the tractor just stops even though my foot is still on the pedal.

Brent,
My slight incline measures 15 on my tilt meter. The loader was full of gravel and was about 10 inches off the ground. I did take the loader off to mow the one time I actually got to mow with it.

Craig,
Nice name. I'm glad to see you also had the problem with the 4310 and the 60 inch MMM rubbing your turf tires. I think JD told you that it cause more stress on the axle because they know this mower does not fit this tractor properly even though it is reccomended by JD in all their literature and dealer manuals. I would not have bought this mower if this was disclosed to me. As for the sub zero weather we have been having and how this effects oil and fuel, I have the oil heater and plug in the tractor 30 mins before I use it. Also the diesel does have the additive in it.

It's getting real old making my monthly payment of $555 on this tractor. Everytime I send in the check the tractor either is not here (it's in the shop), or I just mowed my property with my push mower, or like last month I was shoveling snow that I should have been able to use my tractor to clear.

Craig /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

JerryG · Feb 4, 2004

Craig,
When did you decide that you wanted a different tractor?

del · Feb 4, 2004

I don't know if the loadmatch would affect stop and go
but the motion match certainly does, with that engaged
the tractor will coast when you let go of pedal and
hesitate when starting off. I like using it for that
reason, a lot easier on the old spine.

Recalls are a fact of life, be happy they even do this.
These are pretty complicated pieces of equipment and also
for safety reasons if something turns up (like in this
case) they really want to take care of it.

I am surprised though that they didn't check the recall
bulletins before splitting the trans the first time,
I'm also surprised you already hadn't received a notice
of this as it's been out for sometime. (previous posts
on this forum)

I don't know if I agree with your analysis of factory
versus in-the-shop trans to engine hookup, or anything
else for that matter, depends on who's doing what.

Don't assume that the factory employee is a dedicated
thoughtful, careful worker. Many are but I bought a
Ford van that had the clutches in the trans assembled
out of order. Worked about 800 miles and then started
disintegrating.

Funny thing is Ford wouldn't send a new one, they sent
every single part but the case and the dealer assembled
it. Was working great 75K later...

I've been there on the multi-K purchase sitting in your
garage leaking or otherwise SCREWED UP. It's more of an
emotional thing then anything else, especially if you are
making payments. How the dealer treats you will be the
salve or the salt that is put on your "wound".

Another poster was planning on going with the 4210 tires
as he was concerned about stability. More mower clearance
around tires but less to from mower to ground. Depends on your terrain I guess.

I'm surprised switching the R3's would make any difference.
It only makes less than 2" total difference on the R4s,
and then you get to have fun accessing the valve stem.

Doesn't matter anyway, if you look in your operators manual
where it describes how much ballast to use with a loader it
says LOADER USE NOT APPROVED if rear tread width (center of
tire to center of tire) is under 59". This is impossible to
do even with R1s, the R4s are 42 and 43.8.

The book provides guidance on ballast if your rear tread
width is above 59" but no guidance below that, just
LOADER USE NOT APPROVED. I still haven't gotten an answer
from JD on this other then a form reply. I've been around
similar equipment a bit and know the safety drill but this
is the stupidest statement I have ever seen in a publication.

Either it's a misprint, which is unforgivable in a safety
section that is in a manual that has been out 2 years, or
JD is simply wiping away all liability by declaring ALL
of their 4210 4310 4410 tractors to be unuseable with a
loader.

Would be an interesting court case though, since the dealers
are all selling these tractors with loaders and 90% of them
on lots have R4s on them. The R1's will go out to 57
I think, which REALLY does help.

Flat smooth ground, going slow, load low, no problem. Any
slope use and that's where the problem could arise./forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifDE L/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tractors4u · Feb 4, 2004

( I think JD told you that it cause more stress on the axle because they know this mower does not fit this tractor properly even though it is reccomended by JD in all their literature and dealer manuals. )

Actually I have seen this advice given out many times. I am not an engineer but It has been explained to me that by flipping the front wheels out wide puts added stress on the front axle steering joints.

Woodbeef · Feb 4, 2004

Ok then why not trade your MMM for a RFM then???? It should solve your stability problems.

JerryT · Feb 4, 2004

I agree with CraigG on two points. I reversed my front wheels shortly after getting my 4400. The tractor is clearly more stable on hills that I mow (15-20 degrees)!! Reversing the wheels adds 1-2" per side (as I recall) and the additional stress resulting from this is a ratio of the old total width to the new total width. I am not at the farm so I can't measure this, but if for example the old witdh was 58" and the new is 62". This gives about 7%. Any design engineer will carefully calculate the stress factors, then multiply by 2, when designing or selecting components. JD recommendation is to cover the problem with the 60" mower, not a concern for the axel or bearing.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 4, 2004

You have some legtimate issues. I still stick by that in the long run, KC Canary will get you taken care of. Heck, even we Okies know they are a great dealership. Both Jason and Mark have helped me, personally. They sure didn't have to. If you had your machine split by them, it'll be as good, or better than new. JD is in a better position to take care of them because they do a lot of good for JD. So, I'd be real cordial with them (hard to do with that kinda money tied up in a problem machine) but let them know I want it fixed (which you have)

I hope it works out well for you. I bet it will.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 4, 2004

Anyway, I called K.C. Canary and they came and got the tractor. From what I understand since one side of the housing was tight and the other loose there was uneven pressure on the gasket causing it to fail. The tractor was split and the gasket replaced.


I meant to note this earlier:

A LOT of dealers might have re-torqued those bolt without splitting the machine. You would have felt better about it:

"It was nothing, all we did was re-torque those loose bolts. Everything is fine"

Hopefully, you would have seen the seeping fluid before it all ran out through the damaged gasket.

Instead, they took the initiative to just go ahead and make it right, before another problem happened. But "We had to split the machine" sounds a whole lot worse. But, again, it was KC Canary. Not Bill-Bob's Tires, Bait and Tracters. My buddy bought one there. That's a whole story to itself.

As to doing the recall while they had it the first time, I am sure they would have, if it had been possible. Deere paid for both repairs, and I am sure they are careful on administering that.

I have said this before: It sure is strange that companies like John Deere have recalls, and everyone moans about their quality. Have you ever heard of a recall on a Jinma or DongFeng? Few will suggest that they are in the same quality stratosphere, yet there never seems to be an issue that would warrant a recall. Go figure. (BTW I am just using those brands as examples, not trying to say they are bad.)

 I would probally want a non ehydro transmission like on the 4110 or 4115 I don't know; is the problem related to the electronics? I cannot beleive how much I have grown to like them. And I really haven't heard widespread issues with them.

DAP · Feb 4, 2004

Rockyridge, your point about KC splitting the machine to replace the gasket when they might not of had too is a good one. I wonder if they conveyed that to the owner of the machine.

However ...

(
I have said this before: It sure is strange that companies like John Deere have recalls, and everyone moans about their quality. Have you ever heard of a recall on a Jinma or DongFeng? Few will suggest that they are in the same quality stratosphere, yet there never seems to be an issue that would warrant a recall. Go figure. (BTW I am just using those brands as examples, not trying to say they are bad.)
)

Perhaps JD is doing the very same thing by issuing recalls at all in the first place.

Surely, you can't be saying that because Jinma or DongFeng don't recall means they don't have engineering issues. YeeHaw Ma, take a look at thisy here! Perhaps they actually do have issues but don't bother with the recalls. Engineering is an artform. Thus, there is no such thing as "perfect" or "right". One example of an ingenius engineering implementation does not mean that an equally functional implementation is impossible. It may not be sensible but it is not impossible as in "Iffin it taint broke, don't fix it".

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Splittin a tractor sure sounds spooky though,I must admit, at least superficially. It shouldn't seem to be an introduced corruption into the machine by default though in and of itself.

For the owner, not knowing what, if any, conseqences there might be as a result of these loose bolts is the real issue and I don't envy the person who has to ultimately decide if there is or isn't.

My centavos.