Need Advice: Rotary Cutting and Finish Mowing

FLDave · Nov 26, 2004

Hi All,

I'm ready to buy my first tractor but I am having difficulties picking out the right size. After initial project completion, the tractor will pretty much be used for finish mowing and "bush-hogging" so that is how I want to size it (the tractor).

Here's what I have to do on my property:

3 to 4 acres to finish mow preferably with a 72" (or bigger) rear discharge finish mower.

A 6, 4, and 2 acre pasture to mow with a rotary cutter (preferably 72"). The pastures are all flat and are grass with no brush just some weeds. I will have to mow these areas once or twice a month in the prime growing months.

Here are the pertinent specifications of the two tractor I'm decing between:

Tractor 1: 35 hp engine, 28 hp PTO, 2,900 lbs (I am having difficulty finding many 72" rotary cutters for this.)

Tractor 2: 48 hp engine, 40 hp PTO, 3,700 lbs

Ok, now I'm at the mercy of the experienced people here. Which size tractor and which model of cutters would be the best for me and my property?

I need advice badly, and the salesman are of no help, so thank you in advance. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

RoyJackson · Nov 26, 2004

I'd look at a Deere 4300 series (or one of the new models). That 4310 has plenty of power for a 72" rotary cutter. You could probably run an 84" finishing mower on it too.

I like Befco for finishing mowers. Don't know anything about their cutters though.
Land Pride manufactures a very robust rotary cutter.

Of course, if you go for the Deere...you might get a good package deal with the tractor.

Just my 2 cents...

DK35vince · Nov 26, 2004

I do everything you mentioned above with a 35 HP tractor.
I run a 6' finish mower, but would have no problem with a 7'.
I also run a 6' standard duty (King Kutter) brush mower with no problem. Price of my cutter with a slip clutch was around $800
For mostly just field grass you have no need for a exspensive heavy duty rotary cutter, a lower priced standard duty cutter would be fine.

Dutch445 · Nov 26, 2004

FLDAVE,
Not trying to be picky here, but how many times can you ask the same questions?

June 11
June 14
June 16
June 27
Oct 24
Nov 7
Nov 18

Dave, by the time you buy something, we will have to start talking about feller/bunchers and logging equipment!
You have gotten a lot of advise from TLB members, and pricing for almost every piece of equipment made, are the dealers not interested in helping you fit the right tractor to your needs?

Did you get moved in yet?

FLDave · Nov 26, 2004

Dutch, I thought I was going to be able to use the 28 PTO hp machine but I did a search on Woods, Bush Hog, Rhino, King Kutter, and Land Pride web-sites. Can you tell me out of these manufacturers how many 72" rotary cutters are made that are rated for a 28 hp PTO? I didn't think so. ONLY ONE!!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I am asking an attachment question here to see if there are other cutters I could use. I've narrowed the tractors down to two units and I need some good advice. I would like to by the smaller unit but it seems my rotary cutter selection may be pretty bad. I am sorry if you have been tracking my every move but you'll just have to get over it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I am in a general forum so that I can get a broader response from the experienced members on cutting issues.

By the way, do you have any constructive suggestions for my $20,000.00? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

FLDave · Nov 26, 2004

Roy, thanks, Befco makes a 72" rotary cutter that a 28 hp PTO can handle. Are they good sturdy units?

Vince, thanks also, what does you DK35 weigh and what is the cutter rated at( minimum hp to operate)? I would have a lot more options with over 30 hp PTO it seems but I would have to buy the heavier tractor out of my two choices.

Thanks, /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

RoyJackson · Nov 26, 2004

"Roy, thanks, Befco makes a 72" rotary cutter that a 28 hp PTO can handle. Are they good sturdy units? "

I can't tell you how good Befco rotary cutters are..my finishing mower is a 60" Befco and, other then blade sharpening, grease and one belt replacement, has been a dependable unit. I'm sure their cutters are as well.
I'm running this 60" mower behind a 24 PTO HP tractor. I've no doubt that the 790 could handle a 72" unit easily...maybe even an 84" unit. I just can't swing the funds for a larger finishing mower right now. The next implement on the list is a chipper.

Now, as far as cutters...I've a Landpride 60" cutter. This cutter has done a great job pulverizing 1" to 1½ saplings, heavy brush (as tall as the tractor..or more) and the occasional rock or stump. When I first bought it, I had a Deere 670 (predessesor of the 790 series) which had 16 PTO HP. Although I wasn't really too sure the 670 could handle this sized cutter, the Kubota dealer who sold it to me said they put behind B7500's quite a bit. The B7500 is comparable in grosss and PTO HP to the 670.
I was impressed how well the unit did, especially considering I was 4 HP below the minimum reccomended by Land Pride.
There would be an occasional stall of the tractor...but not many. The combination of the 670 and the 60" Land Pride did a heck of a job!
My current tractor, the Deere 790, has 24 HP at the PTO. It doesn't bog down as much as the 670 did. I can take a larger bite when the brush gets thick. And, when the 790 does bog down, it recovers quicker then the 670 did.

My point is...we underestimate our tractors. They (at least the 70 and 90 series Deeres) are pretty tough. Depending on what you're planning on cutting, I'd go for any of the 72" cutters. If you find out some areas are too much for your horsepower, just take a smaller bite...say half or two thirds of the cutter's width.

For my 790, I don't think I'd go bigger then 60". But this is more due to the weight of the 72" cutter rather then the PTO HP.

I don't abuse my tractor. I expect this 790 to be around longer then I am. But, don't underestimate how tough they are.

FLDave · Nov 26, 2004

So what your saying Ray is that it is not that uncommon for people to buy a rotary cutter a little stouter than recommended?

For example, if I had 28 hp PTO and I bought a rotary cutter rated 30 hp minimum that it would not be that big of a deal and the 28 hp should handle it? I just don't want to overload a brand new tractor and screw it up. It's only 2 hp, but I am very conservative.

Thanks, /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

RoyJackson · Nov 26, 2004

"So what your saying Roy is that it is not that uncommon for people to buy a rotary cutter a little stouter than recommended?"

I'm saying I'd buy the cutter to do the job. If it's slightly above the tractor's specs...I wouldn't have a problem. If the work seems to be taxing the tractor..I'll just take a smaller bite..as described in my earlier post.

I use a bit of common sense when I'm operating equipment...I hope most TBNer's do.

I think some of us read the specs and take them right to heart rather then a good estimate of a job and capacity of the equipment.

keeney · Nov 26, 2004

I would think that the HP to operate a given size cutter would be pretty much the same regardless of the brand. The variation is likely just the various manufacturers different ideas of what "normal" operating conditions would be - how thick the stuff being cut is and how fast the typical user would expect it to cut.

I would take all of the various HP ratings for the various brands of the same size and get a range. Depending on if you think your cutting is going to be heavy or light and you want to go fast or slow, you can pick the low end or the high end of the HP scale to figure out what tractor to buy. Then, go back and buy whatever brand of cutter you want, or like the price on, etc in that size.

As another poster mentioned, for frequent mowing of an already-cut field with mostly just grass, you can likely be happy with a lighter-duty, slightly under-powered combination in a larger size. If you were clearing totally overgrown land from scratch, you would want something in a heavier-duty model with a tractor with the high end of the HP scale for that size.

- Rick

MarkV · Nov 27, 2004

Dave,

I tend to agree with what a couple others have said about not getting to crazy with the power recommendations. When you think about it the manufacture has to make his power recommendation on the high side to cover so many different types of uses. If I am buying a 6’ rotary mower to clear over grown power lines and need to cut 2” sapling at production speed I’d bet their recommended 30 PTO hp. would seem a little skimpy. On the other hand, in your case you are cutting established grass that you plan to cut once every 2 weeks during season and that just doesn’t take the same amount of power. If the grass gets away from you one month then cut at slower travel speed and take 4’ passes instead of 6’ passes.

The general rule of thumb for rotary cutters has been 5-6 PTO hp per foot of mower, depending on who you talk to. With my little tractor I would need a 2 ½ foot mower. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The 4’ light duty mower I use has never caused my tractor to bog down and I have cut fields that the grass/weed was taller than the tractor canopy. It has also worked its way through areas of 1” – 11/2” sapling without complaint.

More power is always good! Will the 28 hp tractor run the 6’ mower even though it has 2 hp less than recommended, in my opinion, absolutely. If it makes you crazy not to follow the manufacture recommendations get a 5’ rotary mower and a 6’ finish mower.

Not knowing the tractor you are considering the other part of this equation is the ability to lift a 6’ rotary mower. That size rotary mower hangs way behind the tractor and weighs a lot. Make sure you have enough lift power and enough counter weight on the front to handle than much mower.

MarkV

JClark · Nov 27, 2004

Dave,

Last summer I got tired of bouncing my 60" MMM around my 3 acre field for 3+ hours everytime I cut it. I talked my local Land Pride dealer into letting me try a 72" rear discharge finish mower by promising to use it for no more than 10 minutes. It only took 5 minutes to realize that my little 17 pto hp 4110 would have no trouble at all powering that mower and it never went back to the dealer.

In thick 10" high grass I do have to slow down some but the rest of the time I travel full speed in the low range of the HST at 2600 rpm.

For your light duty uses I am confident you can use a tractor of some 10 or 20 percent less pto hp than the recommend amount for those mowers.

have_blue · Nov 27, 2004

Don't know about the finish mower, but I pull a 72" RC with a 35 HP tractor just fine. Just don't let the weeds get too far ahead of you!

FLDave · Nov 27, 2004

Thanks for all of the valuable information. I am becoming a little less "squeemish" about the 28 hp PTO unit I am considering. A few more good answers and maybe I'll finally be ok about not buying a 40 hp PTO unit.

DK35Vince (Vince)-Your tractor is in the exact hp range as the one I'm considering, what model KingKutter 72" rotary cutter are you using and are you happy with it?

Roy-From the latest spec sheet, your JD790 is rated at 27 hp with a 24 hp PTO If you had 4 more hp PTO would you feel ok putting a 72" Land Pride Light Duty rotary cutter on ("power-wise" not "weight-wise")?

Keeney (Rick)-Shouldn't the forward speed that your tractor is in while cutting only depend what you are cutting since the PTO is always going 540 rpms (on level smooth terrain of course)? Therefore a bigger tractor using the same cutter theoretically won't cut any faster than a smaller tractor using the same cutter?

MarkV-You must know me. Yes I am very **** (I like to call it thorough /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) about not overworking an expensive piece of equipment. But then again, how many people actually change their cars oil at exactly 2,500 mile intervals all of the time? I see what your saying. It's ok to go a little overboard just don't go crazy is what I am getting out of your statement.

Jeff-How is the 72" finish mower holding up? How fast can you cut your 3 acre field now and what cutting height do you use? I'm sure it looks sweet with a finish mower cutting it. Do you religeously have to mow all of the time now or can you let it get a little ahead of you and still get it back under control? At what height grass do you say to yourself "I had better cut today or I am in big trouble?".

Have Blue-Your TC35 has a "smidge" more PTO hp than the unit I am considering. When you say "RC 72" " which model Woods are you referring to?

Here's a thought (and not an original one I'm sure /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif), what would you guys thing of me using one of those WOODS RD Series finishing mowers to do the yard AND the pastures? Say like the RD7200 or the RD8400?

Or better yet, how about the WOODS RM990? The manual I downloaded says, "The Woods RM990 rear discharge mower is tough yet versatile enough to move from rough weedy farmland to commercial lawns and landscapes." It's got a 90" cut, has a 1 1/2-8" cutting height range, weighs 930 lbs. and has a 25-50 hp tractor compatability. It probably cost a fortune to boot. Does anyone think this could possibly be a good "do-all" cutter for me?

Thanks, /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Soundguy · Nov 27, 2004

( Can you tell me out of these manufacturers how many 72" rotary cutters are made that are rated for a 28 hp PTO? )

Make sure you aren't confusing the max pto hp rating on the mower gearbox, for what it needs to operate. For instance.. you can get a KK 5' hog with a '40' hp box.. it doesn't need 40 hp to run.. rather that is the max you can deliver to it safely.

Old Ford N series are 5' rotary cutter machines... they have between 26 and 27 hp at the engine.... that give you any ideas? ( 23-24 pto hp is what you would pretty much want as minimum for a 5' mower ).

If your tractor is small.. use a more economy mower such as a kk or howse, as they are lighter duty, and weigh less.

Soundguy

Soundguy

Dutch445 · Nov 27, 2004

Dave,
What reason are you thinking you need such a big finish mower for 3-4 acres? I would expect a 60" mower in an open lot to mow it in about 2 hrs or so. If you step up to the 72", cut that down to less than 2, depending on how open the area is. If you had a rugged 72" mower, you certainly can mower meadows and pastures if there isn't thicker material, and you keep up with it by mowing once a month or so. All of the mid size tractors would have no problem running a 72" 3ph mower, and most would lift and run an 84, although your quality of cut decreases with any rolling hills in the area thats mowed.
If the rougher areas aren't just grasses now, you could hire somebody to come in and cut it down with a heavier rotary cutter once, then as the lighter grasses grow keep it in check with the grooming mower. I think the Woods, Frontier, Land Pride, Befco or many others will work well, but if you are headed into the pastures step up into the heavier built models. (they each offer different grades of mowers)
I tend to think a 4310 would do the job very well, a 4410 adds a little more HP for tougher conditions, but from the sounds of it you probably wouldn't horse the tractor that much anyway.
It does sound like you have narrowed your tractors to include Deere. I'm sure you would be happy with one and either mentioned above will serve you well.

good luck!
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

RoyJackson · Nov 27, 2004

"Roy-From the latest spec sheet, your JD790 is rated at 27 hp with a 24 hp PTO If you had 4 more hp PTO would you feel ok putting a 72" Land Pride Light Duty rotary cutter on ("power-wise" not "weight-wise")? "

If I wasn't concerned about the weight, I'd put that 72" cutter on the 24 PTO HP 790. As mentioned, for the lighter brush, I'd take a full width cut. For the sections that were heavier, or if the tractor was bogging excessively, I'd slow down or run a pass or passes using half to two thirds the cutter width.
Back to the finishing mowers for a moment... I know I could easily use a 72" finishing mower. If my lawn was big enough (I've only about an acre of lawn), and the weight of the finishing mower didn't exceed the 3PH capacity, I'm sure I could use an 84" mower deck.
However, I've got the mower and cutter I'll be using for the next few years (for the cutter...unless I really screw up...that'll go for the next ten to twenty years). If I had the funds, I'd trade up to a 72" finishing mower in a heart beat!

Just use some common sense when you use this equipment.

DK35vince · Nov 27, 2004

( DK35Vince (Vince)-Your tractor is in the exact hp range as the one I'm considering, what model KingKutter 72" rotary cutter are you using and are you happy with it? )

I am running the King Kutter L-72-40-P (I'm pretty sure anyway).
It is a 72" cutter with the 40 HP gearbox. Cost was around $695, I added a slip clutch for around $95 more.
I don't like sheer bolts so I added the slip clutch..
Once I lowered the lift pins 5" (the originals are to high) and drilled a new hole for more tailwheel adjustment I have been happy with this cutter.

FLDave · Nov 27, 2004

Soundguy, I was using the "Recommended Tractor HP" on the cutter spec sheets.

Dutch445-I was thinking if I got a commercial grade or heavy duty finish mower that I could take care of my entire 15 acres of pasture with it. I'd of course set the cutting height to at least 5" in the pastures. What do you think?

Roy, thanks, so you don't think a bigger cutter would suck up too much hp or hurt the PTO if driven modestly?

DK35Vince-Thanks, that's a pretty good price for a do-all cutter. But again, how long does it take you to do you 3 acres of field?

No comments on the Super Duper Woods RM990? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks, /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

EddieWalker · Nov 27, 2004

I went about buying my set up a little differently. First thing I knew that I wanted was a bush hog wider than my tires, so 72 inch was were I started. I don't have an brand loyalty or preferences. I talked to Kubota, Deere, New Holland, MF, and Century tractor dealers. To run the shredder the size I wanted they all said I needed to be aroudn 30 PTO hp.

Next consideration was weight. The shredder weighs so much, and the tractor has to be heavy enough to handle it. My tractror is border line and I had to add weights to the front to keep the front tires on the ground when going up hill. It was a real problem when trying to turn.

If I did it again, I'd go for more HP. You can never have enough, and you can always find a use for more power.