Buying Advice Need Advice on SCUT.

[chrisshreves]

Hello. I am needing some input and opinions on purchasing a new SCUT. I currently have a 2011 Kubota BX2360 with a 60 mid mount mower and I also have a 2004 John Deere X595se with the 54 deck and a Yanmar 3-cylinder diesel. I am looking to trade in the Kubota for a TLB model with a 60 mid mount mower. I am looking to trade so that I can get into a newer model, get into a machine with less hours, and gain a backhoe. The Kubota only has 600 hours, but we think it will be the best machine to trade. I have gone to 4 different dealers in my state, two John Deere and two Kubota. I have decided that I want to purchase either another Kubota (BX25D) or a John Deere (1025R TLB). However, I can稚 seem to make up my mind which machine would be better for my application. Price is not the issue, because I have negotiated both a John Deere dealer and a Kubota dealer down to 10K difference after my trade, essentially meaning both machines are the same. I also have gotten the other two dealers willing to match prices if necessary, therefore taking the dealer aspect out of the decision making process as well. I really and just looking for everyone痴 thoughts on this.

I will say that I use the machine 90% for mowing, generally somewhat thick grass. I am currently leaning more towards the Kubota because it seems to have the higher quality deck that I am looking for. I also like the loader valve function better on the Kubota. And the Kubota also will allow me to mow in reverse without using a RIO function like the Deere has. However, the Deere has more loader capacity, more backhoe capacity, more ergonomics, and more comfort features. Looking for some opinions here. Thanks!

 

[nikerret]

Here's a thread I did on the same tractors, but a couple of years old. The same things still apply, except the upgrades to the dash and seat, on the BX25.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...28518-2012-kubota-bx25-tlb-vs.html?highlight=

In the end, I bought a new BX25D, but the ergonomics are better on the 1025R. Price was a big factor, for me. There was around $5,000 difference, which I just couldn't justify for two equal tractors.

I believe you could use your MMM, on the BX25D, but check that. Unless, you want a new one, just to have a new one. If it were me, I would stick with what I knew (and had parts laying around for).

What did you think of the operation, for both?

 

[chrisshreves]

I considered keeping my mower from my BX2360 and using it for the new BX25D, but after I did the math from multiple quotes, it's actually cheaper for me to send my old mower with my trade and just buy a new one. I think it has something to do with the marketability of the tractor on the used lot. As far as the operation goes, just driving the machine around the lot, I liked the John Deere better. Nicer seat and tilt wheel steering. Hydraulic performance at idle would also have to be a win for the John Deere (but who operates at idle?) Mower and loader operation would be a win for the Kubota. I also like the dash and display on the Kubota better.

 

[nikerret]

As far as the operation goes, just driving the machine around the lot, I liked the John Deere better. Nicer seat and tilt wheel steering. Hydraulic performance at idle would also have to be a win for the John Deere (but who operates at idle?) Mower and loader operation would be a win for the Kubota. I also like the dash and display on the Kubota better.

I came to similar conclusions, but the Kubota seat was better, for my butt. The new Kubota dash is very nice. JD sure does beat the Kubota on basic ergonomics, though. The cup holder/storage bin/outlet location all rock on the JD. So does the loader controls. The actual operation of the hydraulics is much better, on the Kubota, though.

The beauty is: There is no wrong or bad decision.

 

[motownbrowne]

You can rent a mini-ex a LOT of times for $10k. A BX with 600 hours on it has a LOT of life left. But, if you've got a hankering for that new tractor smell...

 

[AxleHub]

Chrisshereves,

Why only consider kubota and John deere? Consider a major brand with the festures youndesire from each of thebothers . . . MASSEY GC1710 or GC1730. Why:

1. Name brand engineering and motor and drive train . . . All by Iseki.

2. 5 year warranty

3. Gc tlb units allow the 3 pt and backhoe to be on at same time.

4. 2 hydraulic pumps instead of one.

5. Choice ofbfour (4) mmm decks which includes a 60 drive on and a 54 inch FULL mulcher with 6 blades.

6. Gc1720 offers both coil support sest plus spring suspension for comfort.

7. Brake on left, diff on left, forward and reverse hst petals on right

8. Tight steering circle, flat floor and strong dl95 loader.

9. Forward flow engine coolung like the bx units.

10. Operates at lower RPM than bx and because of dual pumps loader is much faster and usable at much lower rpm levels.

11. I could keep going . . . .

 

[chrisshreves]

Chrisshereves,

Why only consider kubota and John deere? Consider a major brand with the festures youndesire from each of thebothers . . . MASSEY GC1710 or GC1730. Why:

1. Name brand engineering and motor and drive train . . . All by Iseki.

2. 5 year warranty

3. Gc tlb units allow the 3 pt and backhoe to be on at same time.

4. 2 hydraulic pumps instead of one.

5. Choice ofbfour (4) mmm decks which includes a 60 drive on and a 54 inch FULL mulcher with 6 blades.

6. Gc1720 offers both coil support sest plus spring suspension for comfort.

7. Brake on left, diff on left, forward and reverse hst petals on right

8. Tight steering circle, flat floor and strong dl95 loader.

9. Forward flow engine coolung like the bx units.

10. Operates at lower RPM than bx and because of dual pumps loader is much faster and usable at much lower rpm levels.

11. I could keep going . . . .

I appreciate your thoughts on the Massey. However, I personally haven't seen a Massey around my area other than large tractors. Could be related to the distance to the closest dealer. I think Deere and Kubota are the best options for me because I can be at a Deere dealer in 10 minutes. I can be at a Kubota dealer in 15 minutes. I can be at a second Deere dealer in under 1 hour and a second Kubota dealer in 30 minutes. Massey dealers are over 2 hours away, no matter which one I choose.

I would like to say that it is somewhat irritating that I have to throttle up my Kubota beyond idle to pickup the FEL to move the machine. I wish Kubota's pump was a little more responsive at low engine speeds. However, I think I am still leaning towards the Kubota. As far as the 3pt hitch is concerned, I actually remove mine from the tractor and keep it off unless I plan to use it, then I will install it back onto the machine. I generally only use the 3pt maybe 5 or 7 times per year, and it honestly just seems to be in the way most of the time so I prefer to keep it off the machine. Plus with Kubota's 3pt design, I can install the hitch linkage in about a minute so its really no big deal for me.

 

[chrisshreves]

Here's a thread I did on the same tractors, but a couple of years old. The same things still apply, except the upgrades to the dash and seat, on the BX25.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...28518-2012-kubota-bx25-tlb-vs.html?highlight=

In the end, I bought a new BX25D, but the ergonomics are better on the 1025R. Price was a big factor, for me. There was around $5,000 difference, which I just couldn't justify for two equal tractors.

I believe you could use your MMM, on the BX25D, but check that. Unless, you want a new one, just to have a new one. If it were me, I would stick with what I knew (and had parts laying around for).

What did you think of the operation, for both?

Nikerret,

Thanks for the link. I seem to have some of the same opinions on things as you.

 

[chrisshreves]

You can rent a mini-ex a LOT of times for $10k. A BX with 600 hours on it has a LOT of life left. But, if you've got a hankering for that new tractor smell...

Motownbrowne,

I have thought that as well. I honestly would probably only use the BH 3 to 4 times per year. However, it would be nice to have at my convenience. I wouldn't have to worry much about finishing the project in the rental period. However, I could just put a few dollars into my current machine to get it back to showroom condition and save myself $200/mo......

 

[motownbrowne]

Motownbrowne,

I have thought that as well. I honestly would probably only use the BH 3 to 4 times per year. However, it would be nice to have at my convenience. I wouldn't have to worry much about finishing the project in the rental period. However, I could just put a few dollars into my current machine to get it back to showroom condition and save myself $200/mo......

It's too bad we don't live closer. I could come wash and wax your machine (even shine the tires) and you could pay me the $200/month.

 

[chrisshreves]

It's too bad we don't live closer. I could come wash and wax your machine (even shine the tires) and you could pay me the $200/month.

I've already got that part covered!!
Here's some outdated pics of the BX2360 and my previous Deere, the X540. They still look the same though!

 

[chrisshreves]

And believe it or not, my FEL for the BX looks almost as good as the paint on the tractor. And the Deere in this picture had 550 hours on it!

 

[TripleR]

I find it better for us to rent a mini excavator when needed rather than tie money up for a BH on my tractor, so I can't help on that.

We do however own a BX2660 as well as a JD1025R and the perfect machine for me would be a hybrid. I prefer the deck and wide belt on the BX, the BX has more ground clearance with and without the MMM. I like the position control hitch, tilt steering wheel and actual oil cooler on the 1025R over the BX. The screens clog quicker on the JD and I HATE the inability to mow in reverse on the JD. There is a work around on the reverse thing, I'll probably do aftrer the warranty expires.

They are both good machines, so you just need to see which you prefer. I like the MF, but simply can't handle our dealer, bought a tractor from him once and won't do it again.

Good luck.

 

[AxleHub]

I would like to say that it is somewhat irritating that I have to throttle up my Kubota beyond idle to pickup the FEL to move the machine. I wish Kubota's pump was a little more responsive at low engine speeds. However, I think I am still leaning towards the Kubota. As far as the 3pt hitch is concerned, I actually remove mine from the tractor and keep it off unless I plan to use it, then I will install it back onto the machine. I generally only use the 3pt maybe 5 or 7 times per year, and it honestly just seems to be in the way most of the time so I prefer to keep it off the machine. Plus with Kubota's 3pt design, I can install the hitch linkage in about a minute so its really no big deal for me.

I also like the idea that I can raise and lower the fel at 1500 rpm idle and operate with good power speed at 2000 rpm and above. I studied kubotas from 2006 until the day I ordered my Massey gc1715. A number of things are similar that each offers that are unique from most other scuts.

My favorite Unique items that massey has that kubota bx does not is
1. I the floor space is much cleaner
2. Pedals not treadle . . Easier on my knee
3. Dual pumps
4. 5 year warranty
5. The true mulching deck . . 55 total inches and no side discharges so no flower bed and window issues and great lawn cut.
6. Better seating setup as well as legroom.

But the bx products are nice too. Good luck with your purchase . . It will be an improvement and s9meone will get a nice tradein.

 

[nikerret]

Massey Ferguson GC series wasn't even an option, for me. The closest dealer wouldn't give me a price, just wanted me to order one and he would sell it to me at whatever it costs. The dealers nearish to me either had super high prices or refused to work with me, due to distance. I had one guy tell me I needed to call my local dealer and that it was people like me who screwed up the whole dealer network ideals.

They did receive a GC1715, that I got to look at, but when I went to test drive it, to get an idea on the GC1720, it was crickets.

I missed out on a GC2610 TLB that was a prior year's model, but it was when I was first looking, and neither the salesman nor I knew anything about them. That was the only one he actually gave me a price on, sort of. He did reserve the right to raise the price, if he got it in and had figured it wrong.

I'm sure they are fine SCUT's and was interested in them, but around here, they aren't looking to sell them. Where do you think they'll be, after the sale? If I wanted to buy a 100hp tractor, or a new combine, I'm sure the locals would have been very accommodating. The SCUTs just aren't big sellers here, in big farm country.

 

[chrisshreves]

I also like the idea that I can raise and lower the fel at 1500 rpm idle and operate with good power speed at 2000 rpm and above. I studied kubotas from 2006 until the day I ordered my Massey gc1715. A number of things are similar that each offers that are unique from most other scuts.

My favorite Unique items that massey has that kubota bx does not is
1. I the floor space is much cleaner
2. Pedals not treadle . . Easier on my knee
3. Dual pumps
4. 5 year warranty
5. The true mulching deck . . 55 total inches and no side discharges so no flower bed and window issues and great lawn cut.
6. Better seating setup as well as legroom.

But the bx products are nice too. Good luck with your purchase . . It will be an improvement and s9meone will get a nice trade-in.

To be fair, I wanted to consider your thoughts of the MF in person, so I found my closest dealer and decided to call them first. They are about an hour and a half away. They are a small mom and pop type small engine/equipment dealer. They don't actually keep any Massey's in stock, however they said if I already knew what I wanted then they would order one for me. They also do not accept trade-in's, so I would have to sell my current BX myself. Since they didn't have anything for me to look at if I did make the drive, I decided not to drive there and I really didn't learn anything from talking to them. In fact, I think I could gather more information on the GC series here than through my local dealer.

I did however watch some youtube videos on the GC. I do have to save the hydraulics are much more responsive at idle, and that did catch my attention. However, I do somewhat disagree with the comments made in the video. I agree that the hydraulics are more responsive at idle, but the video commented on the Massey running at lower engine speeds than the Kubota and thus reducing engine wear. I have to disagree because although that theoretically makes sense, it is to vague of an assumption to make. Engine manufacturers design engines to be ran at a variety of all speeds. Some do represent longer life with lower RPM's and some do not. Take for example the smaller Honda engines that run at high RPM's and will inevitably outlast a large Ford engine running at low RPMs. But those are just my personal thoughts, I have not collected any data to embrace my thoughts. I'm definitely not using that against the Massey, im just thinking that's not necessarily something to consider when comparing. I think the hydraulics should be compared by performance within the manufacturers specified engine operating speeds. Just my .02 cents.

 

[chrisshreves]

Where do you think they'll be, after the sale?

I kind of had the same thoughts with Massey. I think its really unfortunate because it looks like Massey has a really nice SCUT and a good alternative to the others.

 

[chrisshreves]

I find it better for us to rent a mini excavator when needed rather than tie money up for a BH on my tractor.

I'm starting to consider this even more. I could just accept the depreciation of the machine and keep it. Or I could trade while its still worth something. My business thoughts are telling me to trade it in March when the additional incentives are coming out. However, I would be nice to put that extra $200 per month towards a brand new truck....still thinking. :confused3:

 

[TripleR]

I'm starting to consider this even more. I could just accept the depreciation of the machine and keep it. Or I could trade while its still worth something. My business thoughts are telling me to trade it in March when the additional incentives are coming out. However, I would be nice to put that extra $200 per month towards a brand new truck....still thinking. :confused3:

In my area Kubotas don't depreciate a whole lot, someone is always trying to get me to sell them my 2003 BX2200. Of course it may be different elsewhere.

That and while I no longer finance anything, when I did, there was nothing quite so sweet as having a machine paid off.