My Pond Project

[ETD66SS]

I'm new to this site. I have posted my project on other sites, but this one seems more active, so I'll post it here too:

Hi all, this will be a long post with a lot of pictures, I hope I don't bore anyone.

I started my pond(s) project in the summer of 2006.

I bought a Caterpillar D6C dozer hoping that would be the only tool I needed for the job.

My plan was to dig two ponds and connect them with a culvert. This was to facilitate driveway between them, as shown here:

Pond(s) plan

Here are some pictures of the very early stages of the small pond, it's only .32 acres in size:

Excavating 2006

I ran into a problem at about 8 ft deep, the gray clay was soaked, and I was afraid to get my dozer stuck. So I had to abandoned the digging for that year. I was disappointed, I wanted to get to 16 ft deep.

It was a very wet fall & winter, here is what the pond looked like the next spring/early summer:

Spring 2007

In the fall of 2006 I bought a CAT 225 excavator, as I needed to dig the small pond deeper, and knew I needed something to dig the large pond with.

The spring/summer of 2007 was very dry, I pumped out the ~7ft deep pond, and made a ramp down in, and took my CAT 225 as far in as I dared. I was able to get to ~14-15ft deep using my 225:

Deepening the small pond

I finally ended up with this:

Finished small pond

Now it was on to the larger pond with the CAT 225.

I am not an experienced heavy equipment operator, and it probably shows in my results, but here is how far I got with the large pond last summer:

Digging large pond

Cross section of channel

Unfortunately, I only got 2/3 complete with the excavation before winter & wet weather came. I can't dig in the fall/winter months if it's too wet, as my dump truck is just a Louisville tandem axle, I don't have a articulating dump. The pond stated to fill up quick:

Large pond filling

Ponds pretty full late winter

Finally, here is what they look like now:

Ponds, spring of 2008

Now, I know I have a lot of work to do with the banks, and the slopes in some areas. I wish I could have gotten everything done as quickly as the pro's do it, but that didn't happen.

That is pretty much where my project stands now. I have to pump out the larger pond into the smaller one, and let the excess flow out the spillway before I can continue with the excavation.

Currently I'm building a new base & cage for my trash pump. I'm replacing the 2 gallon fuel tank with a 50 gallon tank from an old dump truck so I can run the pump for 4-5 days straight.

 

[Foozle]

Looks great - nice job!

 

[hayden]

Very nice and thanks for sharing it.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Looks great. I like the connection between the two ponds and have thought about doing that myself, but would have to dig a long trench...an excavator would be perfect for that.

How large is the larger pond? Both are excavated ponds, right, as opposed to embankment?

If embankment, could have left an opening for water to drain out during construction...which is what I've done on three other ponds....so you could continue working without having to pump so much.

Since they are connected, what are your plans for stocking?

I'm a pond nut myself, so appreciate your posts and look forward to hearing more about your project. Thanks for the pictures.

 

[ETD66SS]

The land is totally flat. They are both excavated ponds fed mostly by groundwater + runoff.

I have to find a big culvert for a connection. I'd like a culvert at least 6 ft in diameter, has to be about 40 ft long.

I'm not sure about what fish to stock, I have been asking over on pondboss what my ponds could support.

I'd really like to have some walleye in there, but I don't think the ponds are deep enough.

I thought I was getting to about 18 ft deep, but I have measured the water depth at 11 ft this spring, and it only has about 24" to go. So I'm only going to have ~ 13 ft of water at most. Probably only suitable for large mouth bass...

The total acreage of both ponds combined is nearly 1-1/2 acres.

I have 1/3 of the big pond yet to dig, I might try to do that part deeper, but digging through the rock in the glacial till is tough going after I get 12 ft deep...

 

[EddieWalker]

What state is the pond in?

Looks like a heck of a project. What are you doing with the dirt? You sure have allot of it to get rid of!!!!

How are the ponds filling up? Watershed from rains? Springs?

Are you still using the dozer now that you have the excavator?

Thanks for sharing, it's a massive project, but one that you can obviously undertake.

Eddie

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Not sure where you are located...so take my thoughts as a interested Texan.

Have you considered stocking trout? Sounds like you have the climate for it. LMB may not be suitable for your climate and regardless, 1.5 acres is on the small side for a high probability of having a successful LMB pond. It can be done, certainly, but requires considerable management. My understanding is that walleye probably won't work for you.

 

[ETD66SS]

I'm in New York State, near Niagara Falls.

Oh, the dozer gets the most use, as I'm still clearing trees. I have cleared 10 acres of trees since 2004. I have a graveyard of well over 1000 stumps.

The primary reason for the ponds was for the dirt. The land is perfectly flat, and a bit low, so the dirt will be put to good use for building on the lot. I am the primary owner of the land, and all the equipment. However I have a younger brother who owns a small lot of it, and an older brother who owns some. We will all build houses there, and the dirt & clay is for fill & landscaping. I need to raise about 8 acres of cleared land 3 ft in elevation. That's about 38,000 cubic yards of dirt. I calculate that when the ponds are complete, I will have excavated close to 50,000 cubic yards. So I will have some left over...

The water table where I am is typically 12-20" below grade during the winter. However it can vary 50" during the dry season. My plan is to line the banks down to the excavated clay layer with clay, and pack it with a sheepsfoot. I don't have a sheepsfoot, and am trying to locate one to pull with my dozer.

Still al lot of work to do...

Here are some aerial shots of the project abut 1/2 way through the clearing, and when the small pond was only 7 ft deep:

whitedwarf4's photos. Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com

Have you considered stocking trout? Sounds like you have the climate for it.

I have read that trout need a pond to have 15-18 ft of water in it at all times no matter the season, I won't have that. Plus I heard they won't reproduce in ponds, LMB will.

Not sure about the LMB. In this area, it seems like LMB are the only fish that survive in small ponds...

My brother-in-law has a house with a 1 acre pond not 10 miles from me. It's had a healthy LMB population in it for years... Has some carp too, lol. His pond is of similar depth.

I guess I'm not picky about fish, whatever will live in it and thrive is fine by me...

 

[bindian]

I'm in New York State, near Niagara Falls.

Oh, the dozer gets the most use, as I'm still clearing trees. I have cleared 10 acres of trees since 2004. I have a graveyard of well over 1000 stumps.

The primary reason for the ponds was for the dirt. The land is perfectly flat, and a bit low, so the dirt will be put to good use for building on the lot. I am the primary owner of the land, and all the equipment. However I have a younger brother who owns a small lot of it, and an older brother who owns some. We will all build houses there, and the dirt & clay is for fill & landscaping. I need to raise about 8 acres of cleared land 3 ft in elevation. That's about 38,000 cubic yards of dirt. I calculate that when the ponds are complete, I will have excavated close to 50,000 cubic yards. So I will have some left over...

The water table where I am is typically 12-20" below grade during the winter. However it can vary 50" during the dry season. My plan is to line the banks down to the excavated clay layer with clay, and pack it with a sheepsfoot. I don't have a sheepsfoot, and am trying to locate one to pull with my dozer.

Still al lot of work to do...

Here are some aerial shots of the project abut 1/2 way through the clearing, and when the small pond was only 7 ft deep:

whitedwarf4's photos. Get free image hosting at ImageCave.com - free image hosting at ImageCave.com



I have read that trout need a pond to have 15-18 ft of water in it at all times no matter the season, I won't have that. Plus I heard they won't reproduce in ponds, LMB will.

Not sure about the LMB. In this area, it seems like LMB are the only fish that survive in small ponds...

My brother-in-law has a house with a 1 acre pond not 10 miles from me. It's had a healthy LMB population in it for years... Has some carp too, lol. His pond is of similar depth.

I guess I'm not picky about fish, whatever will live in it and thrive is fine by me...

ETD66SS,
Nice looking project. I can't wait for a dry spell to start my pond.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Tororider]

Great looking project, you have two of the best pond guys on the site in Eddie and Meadowlark to give you advice.

I would think about smallmouth bass if I were you. They should be easier to maintain with a feeder fish (bluegill, fatheads) than largemouth.

Keep us updated, looks like fun.

 

[ETD66SS]

Great looking project, you have two of the best pond guys on the site in Eddie and Meadowlark to give you advice.

I would think about smallmouth bass if I were you. They should be easier to maintain with a feeder fish (bluegill, fatheads) than largemouth.

Keep us updated, looks like fun.

Hey, you should have similar fishing ponds in Michigan to what we have here in NY.

I fished a lot of ponds as a kid, and never did I catch any SMB. Always LMB, BG & Sunfish...

Have you fished ponds in your area with SMB? How big were the ponds, were they deep?

 

[srossman]

Funny you were talking about fish in the pond. My father has been re-habbing a pond on my grandfathers land and just had a pond guy from Penn State review the pond. He told him that as long as the water temp stays under 70, that the pond would support trout, but like you said, they would not reproduce since they need a stream bed to re-produce. He also said that it would support bass as well, but they would not grow as fast if the water temp didn't get over 70. His pond is a stream fed pond that has a constant flow in and out of the pond.

You're pond looks great. Can't wait to see the final version.
-Scot

 

[meadowlarkponds]

One thing you might want to consider to help raise larger LMB than you otherwise might be able to do in your climate...use the small pond as a grow out pond or forage pond.

You can probably easily isolate fish in both ponds with a net/screen across the canal. Then let your forage multiply and grow without predators in the small pond and periodically move forage to the LMB pond. It would entail a little effort, but would pay off with some of the largest LMB that could be grown in your area.

If I had a LMB pond in your area and with your setup, no question that is what I would do.

 

[ETD66SS]

One thing you might want to consider to help raise larger LMB than you otherwise might be able to do in your climate...use the small pond as a grow out pond or forage pond.

You can probably easily isolate fish in both ponds with a net/screen across the canal. Then let your forage multiply and grow without predators in the small pond and periodically move forage to the LMB pond. It would entail a little effort, but would pay off with some of the largest LMB that could be grown in your area.

If I had a LMB pond in your area and with your setup, no question that is what I would do.

I was actually thinking about that. Putting a grate over the culvert to let small fish swim past, but not big ones...

Would that be sufficient, or would I have to force the small fish to move over?

 

[meadowlarkponds]

The key would be in the mesh size. To make most effective use of the forage pond, you would need to insure no LMB, zero. You could use a grate or some other material, but in the second year when your LMB spawn they will be as small as the smallest fish and can pass into the forage pond. Now, very small YOY LMB won't do much harm to your forage pond at first, but they grow and when they get 12 to 14 inches can absolutely create havoc and undo what you are trying to accomplish.

I once put about 60 Hybrid Striped Bass(HSB) in what I thought was an empty forage pond...after draining the pond months later, I discovered zero(0) HSB, and one fat, smiling LMB. They are top of the line fresh water predators and will find a way.

The most productive way, IMO, would be to use very small mesh to insure no fish move back and forth and then trap, net, cast net, and/or catch the small forage to move manually into the main pond. If that sounds like too much work, then, you could try the other approach for a couple of years and see what happens...but I predict at least one, happy, fat LMB in the forage pond in a couple of years.

One last thought....if you really want to avoid the fine mesh and associated work but still want to use a forage pond, then you could stock 100% female LMB in the main pond. It would work...one mistake, however, will undo that and also you would have to replenish LMB that are removed.

 

[ETD66SS]

Silly me, I didn't even think of young LMB getting in there...

I think I would do the mesh thing.

What kind of fish could I have in the small pond?

Would it be possible to have BG or sunfish in there along with baitfish? Or will the BG just demolish everything?

What will the LMB eat initially in the big pond?

 

[meadowlarkponds]

What kind of fish could I have in the small pond?

Would it be possible to have BG or sunfish in there along with baitfish? Or will the BG just demolish everything?

What will the LMB eat initially in the big pond?

Working toward an objective of raising healthy fat LMB in your environment...

First, stock your baitfish (fathead minnows and shiners or whatever is recommended for your area) in both ponds at your recommended per acre stocking rates. Stock BG and red ears (RES) in the main pond at recommended per acre stocking rates for a LMB pond in your area.

Then after a full growing season (spring to following spring) bring in the young LMB in the main pond. There will be plenty of forage for them to eat. Toward the end of that second growing season and thereafter, treat your LMB to forage moved from the small pond.

Now, this is the hard part for me because of regional differences...how many, if any, BG and RES to stock in the small pond. The fear is BG overpopulating the small pond and stunting...remember there will be no predators there in the forage pond to help you keep the BG numbers in check. Talk with your local area DNR if you have them or pro pond managers in your local area for the question on stocking BG and/or RES in the forage pond.

I would not stock any BG and/or RES in the forage pond the first growing season. The second season, at best, only stock small numbers of them in the forage pond ...you could move a few from the larger pond but... Again, the problem I worry about is BG overpopulating the small pond.

If you don't like the way things are going in the future, you have several management options....including addition or subtraction of LMB in the large pond and of course, you always have the option of just opening up the small pond to the LMB predators from the big pond if you don't like the way things are going.

Carefully consider the question of stocking BG in the forage pond.

Sounds like fun to me...and some experimentation/learning along the way.

 

[pitt_md]

Great looking project.

LMB will do fine in that depth of a pound without any work on your part. I grew up on a farm in MI that had several ponds and some of the bass got real nice in size. Great place to take the kids fishing...

When I lived in upstate NY (Apalachin) I lived on a private man made lake/pond about 15 acres. So many bass in that small lake it was fantastic fly fishing...

 

[ETD66SS]

Has anyone ever had a GPR (ground penetrating radar) geological survey performed?

The soil conservationist who has been helping me with my pond design has stated that I must not hit bedrock, as that is like adding a drain to the bottom of your pond.

I dug the basin 15 ft deep, but if I want coldwater fish of some type, I need to get to at least 20 ft deep. He told me to keep a minimum of 2 ft of glacial till between the bottom of the pond and bedrock.

I really don't have a place to dig a 25 ft deep test hole to look for bedrock, nor do I want to waste the diesel fuel to do that.

I was hoping I could get a GPR survey done. The radar's look almost like little push mowers, and I only need a small area surveyed.

I have contacted a the place that did my survey, as well as a few other places, but can't seem to come up with anyone who even has the equipment.

Oh, and yes I did think of core drilling, but that looks more costly to do than just wheeling a radar over the ground. Plus I have a lot of large rocks in the glacial till, undoubtedly you'd be drilling more than one hole due to all the rocks down there...

Any ideas?

Here is a company who manufactures the units: Geology and Geophysics Using GPR and EM by GSSI

 

[ETD66SS]

I spent my Memorial Day weekend digging a 500 ft ditch to the road so I can pump out the unfinished pond without flooding the neighbors fields.

In these pic's you can also see the trash pump I pimped out with a 50 gallon tank so it can run for a few days straight.

I'm trying to save a bit of fuel by not having the pump suck the water up hill the whole time by using a truck tire inner tube to keep the suction end of the hose only 1 ft below water level.


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