My new Jinma

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

I have another question about this engine.
What is this sensor for and what does it do? Is it the EGR or something?

QUOTE]

Hey Rob,
When we were chating the other day ........... I asked about Flame Start.

That is what that is. I like the idea !!

Put a test like on that solenoid and set if it lights up when the key is held in the glow plug position or while cranking. ??

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[3RRL]

Ronald,
I have that on my Kama 554.
On Loretta's Jinma, is it activated separate from the glow plugs somehow? Or simultaneous? When using the glowplugs there is no noticeable "poof" like my Kama makes, and my Kama doesn't have glowplugs. So the preheat for it is specifically for the manifold heater.
How would I tell on hers?

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

Rob, I am new on the flame start thing but feel I understand operation and all don't lite off the same.

I assume the wire going to the element in the intake which is a coil, which lights the fuel. The other soleniod connected in the fuel line has one wire going to one of the electrical spades and the other spade is bent over. I assume that soleniod valve turns the fuel on and off and don't see how it could work with one wire.

If it is not making a poof noise ..... it might not be poofing ?

It may have a controller that the other sensor is talking to the that tells the controller to turn on the fuel and heat the coil via temp ??

I may have to get one of those engines in a 254 on my next order and check them out. I like it.

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[greg_g]

I have another question about this engine.
What is this sensor for and what does it do?

It's not a sensor, it's an intake manifold pre-heater.

//greg//

 

[Mrs3RRL]

Hi Loretta !!!!!!!

Somehow I missed this thread until just now. So even though I've seen your tractor in person, and can attest to how nice it is, Congratulations on your new tractor!!!! From what I was able to see on it, you have a very nice tractor that's going to be a wonderful workhorse for you.

Has Rob been able to get any more done on your grapple? I'm looking forward to reading the posts on it and seeing the improvements he makes in the disign over the one on his tractor.

Eddie

Hi Eddie! It was so great to meet you and your family!

Rob has the grapples almost done. I think he just has to make the pins for it, and that's all. We'll take them up next time. I just have to get used to all these new valves on it!

 

[bluechip]

I have another question about this engine.
What is this sensor for and what does it do? Is it the EGR or something?

QUOTE]

Hey Rob,
When we were chating the other day ........... I asked about Flame Start.

That is what that is. I like the idea !!

Put a test like on that solenoid and set if it lights up when the key is held in the glow plug position or while cranking. ??

Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

The "flame starts" I have seen all had only one wire. apparently the fuel valve is also controlled by the heating element, probably using different metals with different expansion rates.... clever device however it works!

 

[greg_g]

The Thermo-Start system that pre-heated my Yanmar was silent, I wouldn't be terribly concerned if yours turns out to be "poofless". The 1st photo clearly shows a red wire feeding a presumed switchable 12v to the heating element, and a silver-colored fuel supply line feeding the heater. By itself, the photo suggests a one-wire gravity fed system, typically supplied by the fuel return loop.

But that 2nd photo now generates some questions of my own. At first glance, I thought that brass-colored thing was your EGR valve, which - if true - would have no relationship to the manifold heater.
-Does the other end of the silver fuel feed actually connect to that brass colored thing? -
-Where is the other end of the blue wire that is connected to the brass colored thing?-
-Is that black plastic line going into the brass colored thing carrying fuel?-
-If so, from where?-

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

All good questions and I can't answer where those wires or tubes go.
I'll have to take more photos next visit up and really find out where all the connections go. It will be interesting for others who have this engine to know.

On the other hand, I have one of those manifold preheaters on my Kama 554.
However, it does not have glow plugs. so when you you turn the key counter clockwise you activate that manifold preheater. It works and I can definitely hear it. It also shows a draw down on the amp meter in the preheat ignition position.

On the Jinma, it has glow plugs and when you turn the key to the preheat it warms them up.
Now that I think about it, that Jinma came WITHOUT the glow plugs hooked up, you remember? We had to add a wire and fuse for them as shown in a previous post.
I wonder if the preheat on the switch was for that manifold preheater then? I don't think so...
If it was, it didn't work very good at all because I remember there was no draw down on the amp meter in the pre heat position plus the tractor wouldn't start!
It fire right up after we hooked up the glow plugs and preheated that way.

 

[greg_g]

I wonder if the preheat on the switch was for that manifold preheater then? I don't think so...
If it was, it didn't work very good at all because I remember there was no draw down on the amp meter in the pre heat position plus the tractor wouldn't start!
It fire right up after we hooked up the glow plugs and preheated that way.

Sorry, haven't followed all 13 pages of this thread all that closely. So I don't remember the inop glow plug circuit. But now that you mention it, perhaps in activating that circuit, you killed the other one.

The manifold heaters don't pull anywhere near the amount of current that glow plugs do. Their rough equivalent would be a cigarette lighter in a car. No visual indication of current draw on the ammeter should be confirmed with a voltmeter between the red manifold heater wire and ground. If there is in fact 12v there when energized by the switch, you should probably consider a fuel delivery problem.

//greg//

 

[3RRL]

Loretta's 284 is really coming together with all the work she's been doing on it. I thought you might like see some of the new hydraulic valves she's been working on such as what you saw in her grapple thread and the replacement FEL valve thread the new valves she got. Here they are all together. First the new FEL valve with new Scorpion joystick handle and also the electric solenoid grapple valves.



We also added a pressure relief valve right after the pump along with a pressure gauge and return to sump line. Right now with the loader on, the FEL valve is next in line. If the loader is removed, there are QC's to hook up to the remaining valves on the tractor. Notice my favorite "T" shirt?

 

[3RRL]

The new FEL valve uses it's power beyond to feed the next valve in line. This one is single acting single spool valve to run her dump trailer. We made all the brackets and did all the mounting at camp.



Here it is all plumbed up with a QC. It also has a separate return to sump line and a power beyond to feed the next valve in line. The high pressure into this valve has a quick connect so when the loader valve goes off with the loader, this valve can be connected to the pump after the pressure relief valve and gauge. Thereby running all the remaining valves on the tractor.

 

[3RRL]

The next valve in line is the OLD Jinma AL-20 valve. We used it to operate her upcoming hydraulic side link cylinders (not yet installed). That valve then feeds the electric solenoid valve for the grapples, since it has no power beyond. But it was feeding the 3pt valve before ... so what?
That's it with the bent joystick handle.



You may have noticed that the bracket we made for it also includes the rear remotes bulkhead all in one bracket. Pretty cool huh?
Additionally, Loretta didn't like the fact that the stock 3pt valve handle was so close to the rear remote handle and the other handles all clustered up on the right had side. So we moved the rear remote valve away and up from the 3pt valve handle. Now it sits between the ZL-20 valve and the 3pt handle. The locations were all figured out so when she turned to operate them, she could reach the handles with comfort.
Here is a pretty good shot of the new rear remote valve location up off the floor board and back a ways.



One thing we had to do to avoid chasing down all the metric fittings, is that we kept the relation between the OLD ZL-20 loader valve and the rear remote valve and also the 3pt valve the same. In other words, because of the banjo fittings they used, and they were different sizes for work ports and power in and out, we had to keep the same valves feeding each other as they were. This presented a little problem due to the hose length. We had to make new brackets, but it all worked out pretty good after all.

You also probably saw that we have the ZL-20 valve work ports blocked off for now. We will use the old (but still brand new) hoses and fittings to feed the side link cylinders when we get them. The ends of those hoses used to fit the loader steel lines, but we'll get the ends cut off or an adapter so they will fit the hydraulic cylinders.

So besides the Grapple installation, that's what else we've been working on.

 

[TBDonnelly]

So besides the Grapple installation, that's what else we've been working on.

Rob, You've got my head spinning. WOW!

Now where would the cupholder be?

Don

 

[Flyhiflylo]

Rob, oh my gawd! That's some killer stuff!

 

[Mrs3RRL]

Rob, You've got my head spinning. WOW!

Now where would the cupholder be?

Don

Yes, our heads were spinning, too. You have no idea how hard it is to keep everything straight, when nothing is connected yet.

"The shinbone is connected to the kneebone and the kneebone is connected to the thigh bone"..... and just exactly what kind of connector were we going to put there??? oh yes, it's 1/2 JIC.....oh, wait, maybe we'll use a shorter hose .. one that we already have... oh, wait, if we do that, it's a different connector.. that one's 3/8 NPT - now, if we just have an adapter from 3/8 NPT to 1/2 JIC. Dig through the hydraulic connections box and voila! perfect! oh, wait..... it needs to be a live swivel. Back to the hydraulics store. What? $33.00 for a live swivel 1/2 NPT? yikes! oh wait... was that 1/2 NPT or 3/8 JIC or 3/8 NPT to 1/2 JIC... better check Rob's drawing. hm... still the same price - if they even have it. (see what I mean?)

Oh, and about the cupholder.... haven't found just exactly the right one yet.

 

[TBDonnelly]

Oh, and about the cupholder.... haven't found just exactly the right one yet.

There is an extra port for the hydraulically assisted cup holder right? It'll need an auto-leveling feature for uneven terrain and a lift actuator to bring the beverage to ideal operator height. Hmm......and a refridgeration system to keep the beverage at ideal temperature.

Don

 

[dfkrug]

We also added a pressure relief valve right after the pump along with a pressure gauge and return to sump line.

Another relief valve? Why? I see one on your loader valve and one on
your new single-acting cyl valve.

Anyway, Loretta/Rob, that sure is a lot of plumbing! Looks great.

 

[3RRL]

Hi Dave,
The main reason for that relief valve at the pump is a safety feature. On the Jinmas, when you remove the loader, you disconnect the pressure side and return side QD's. Then they should be plugged in to each other so when you start the tractor you don't deadhead the hydraulic pump and blow it up. In the stock configuration, there is no other connection to the other valves at that point. I've read where some guys forget to do this and damage occurs. I know we are getting old so it could happen to us. So if we forget now, the pressure relief bypasses without damage.

In replumbing her tractor, I have it so we can plug in the pressure line into the next valve when we take the loader off, so the rest of her valves work. But again, I have to remember to do that.

 

[3RRL]

In post #132 you saw where I used the stock fel valve for Loretta's future rear remotes or side links.
Well, that valve has been screwing up. During normal use of the tractor, we have to "wiggle" the joystick a little because for some reason, it was restricting flow through the hydraulic system. We could see the pressure spike on the gauge and then reduce after wiggling that joystick. This last weekend after spiking the pressure up, wiggling the joystick would not reduce the pressure at all. In fact, it would not return to center. It was like the spring loaded return to center feature was broken in one direction. Like it was doing nothing to change the position of the spools in the valves.

I had to take that valve OUT of the loop completely, which cured the spike problem. Now the hydraulic system works good again. Also, her original rear remote valve that came with the tractor is working good too. You remember it was not working well, even after adjusting the pressure relief setting on it.
What do you suppose happened to the original fel valve to make it malfunction like that? It was not hooked up to the side links yet, and fluid was only flowing through it until I had time to install the side links.

 

[Diamondpilot]

My guess is some debris is stuck in there somewhere which will warrant a tear down to take a look.

Chris