Multirotors / Quadcopters / otherwise known a DRONES

[Cherokee140]

First off let me say if this is the wrong area just move it to where you feel best.

I have posted up a few videos I have shot from my multirotor and have gotten quite a few comments on them that I figured there might be enough interest in these flying machines to start a thread....if not it will die a quick death.

I don't claim to know even 1/10 about multirotors, but I have been flying RC for over 30 years. I know a little about them, but it is a moving target and things are in change all the time.

Why would this community care about this stuff? Well first off it is kinda fun. Second they are very handy for checking out things ranging from storm damage to seeing if you need to clean out your gutters on your house....so if you think you can see a use, fun or otherwise read on.

Costs....first thing everyone wants to know is how much does it cost....and the usual answer it depends. They can cost as little as under $100 to well into the tens of thousands for "hobby" classed aircraft. But for under $500 you can get into the air with a good quality unit that will be repairable and large enough to carry a camera.....you can go up from there.

Differences.....in painting with a very wide brush there are two types of birds.

Manual, this you fly the thing 100% of the time.

Autopilots....there are really two different auto pilot type birds out there, one is APM, the other is DJI/Naza/Wookong (Phantom) These are really the two most popular at the moment.

The difference with the auto pilot machines is that they have sat. tracking in them so they can be programmed to follow a "mission", this can be handy if you want to fly a grid over a crop field to look for damage, or even if you have some cows that got out. They can also be set to hold at a given altitude and you can move the machine where you want....really whatever you can think of.

Cameras.....there are really again two basic types of cameras, the kind that record, then you bring it back download it to your computer and watch the video, the other is live video or FPV (first person view)...this is where the video has a radio link to a receiver on the ground and it is plugged into some type of monitor...you see what the camera sees in real time.

Again if there is any interest in this I will be happy to explain more....if not, it took me 5 min to type this up.

Here is a little example of the type of video you can record for well under $500.

 

[jimmysisson]

That's pretty cool, but wifey needs a bigger mower!
Jim

 

[davrow]

I am very interested, much easier to survey the rocks I can't climb on the hillside behind our house.

Thanks for answering the cost question, that was #1.

The other is... our place is often very windy. A light quad isn't going to do well then. Can heavier (bigger) quad/multi handle wind better? Or would this be mostly an early morning/early evening flyer?

edit: oops, another question: range on a sub-$500 flyer

 

[Cherokee140]

Windy....well the one in the video is a 350mm machine....350 from rotor across to the other rotor. This is a pretty popular size and IMHO do just about everything just not anything real well. They are very easy to transport, and will take a fair bit of wind, lift a gopro, and some FPV gear bit over a pound or so....but I would say anything over 10mph would be VERY IFFY. If it is much over 15mph I would say everything is going to be grounded....not that they will not fly in it but after you get past 500mm the costs really start to get up there as those are usually all carbon fiber affairs with pretty high costs. 450 is pretty much the largest "inexpensive" quad you can go for.

As to the range you will have control over it further away then you can see it. And that is pretty much a function of the radio. MOST of the radios are 2.4ghz and will have about a mile range give or take. You can get into UHF radios that will go MUCH further, but again a entire new area of both cost and complexity comes in here.

 

[JJZ 109]

A small local business has been doing some work for real estate outfits and has assisted local law enforcement a couple of times. Because the law enforcement operation was publicized in a local paper, of course the FAA got wind and is giving everyone grief over it.

 

[Cherokee140]

A small local business has been doing some work for real estate outfits and has assisted local law enforcement a couple of times. Because the law enforcement operation was publicized in a local paper, of course the FAA got wind and is giving everyone grief over it.

Yea, that much of it is still very much up in the air....but let me tell you what I know so far without acting like the news and telling you just what they want you to know.

The FAA is really having a problem with a few areas of RC flight.

1) Flight for hire....like taking a photo of a house for the real estate people and making money off of that. I have flown over peoples houses to look at roof tiles, gutters and sky lights....to see for damage or to see if the gutters need to be cleaned out. As long as I do this for free SO FAR the FAA has not had a problem with it. They are trying to treat unmanned aircraft the same as manned and think the same rules apply.

2) FPV (First person view) they really have a problem with this. Up to this point RC aircraft had to be flown by someone with their eyes on the bird itself. With FPV you can have your eyes totally covered with goggles and never actually see the plane. They want all RC flight to be with the pilots eyes on the aircraft at all times....this cuts out a buddy watching the plane for you.

3) Range, this goes along with seeing the plane and FPV, you can now fly the plane on cross country trips long out of sight. With radios now reaching almost 10miles you can take quite a trip....the FAA is not real happy with that.

4) Navigation/autopilots. You can buy a bird that will actually fly itself....from takeoff to landing you don't have to do anything put program it in a computer....and it is super easy. This is all controlled with autopilots and GPS units....and it can all be had for under $300.

5) Size, with the ability to lift 50lbs and keep it up there for 30 minutes they are more then a little worried about that as well.

6) Speed, There are some turbine powered models (yes real jet engines) that can cook through the sky at speeds over 300mph....These are usually very expensive models and flown at actual airports....but the FAA is not happy about this as well.

It does not take a lot of thinking that this could be a big bucket of bad....think about it, I can put 50lbs on something that will fly for 30min and it will fly to its destination with no more input from me other then clicking on one button....just use your wildest dreams and think what that 50lbs could be.

I really don't know where this hobby will go in the next 10 years or so, but I do know it is going to change, licensing everything has been suggested to outlawing everything.....no one really knows.

I will say that even if flying is just a hobby to you these things are VERY dangerous. Fires from damaged batteries is not uncommon, and these lipo batteries hold huge amounts of energy....everyone I know has had a lipo issue at one point in their time in the hobby.

The real problem is that so many are new to flying because there is no learning curve anymore (remember they fly themselves) that they don't really earn their wings with smaller models. Here is a short video on a lipo explosion in what looks like an extra. People have lost their cars and even their entire houses to lipo fires. This are big powerful batteries that are pushed to the limit.

It is a fun hobby but you have to respect it and fly in safe areas....not out the windows of some office building, imagine if the plane below crashed on an office building (has happened) or in a downtown area, over a sports field, crowd of people. The people flying these things need to use their head, and the new people just don't really understand the bad that can happen.

 

[caver]

Video I shot on vacation while a bit bored at a campground. I bought one for the aerial video ability.

 

[k0ua]

50 lbs, 30 minute flight time with full programmable auto-pilot? Rut Roh!.. that is what is known in the defense industry as a "fire and forget" offensive weapon.:shocked:

 

[GManBart]

Fun stuff! I've been thinking about getting something similar to fool around with on my property.

LiPo batteries are no joke...even a pin prick can make them explode. Here's a drone company that had a battery explode just sitting on the shelf...not even charging!

LiPO Spontaneously catches on fire at EZDrone - YouTube

 

[GManBart]

It is a fun hobby but you have to respect it and fly in safe areas....not out the windows of some office building, imagine if the plane below crashed on an office building (has happened) or in a downtown area, over a sports field, crowd of people. The people flying these things need to use their head, and the new people just don't really understand the bad that can happen.

Yep, it's gotten to the point that they're so capable, and so easy to use, it's easy for people to be dumb.

I happened to be meeting with an executive at a huge worldwide company recently, and he asked if I wanted to take a look at the drone one of the window washers found. They downloaded the video from the attached GoPro, and found that it had crashed into their building near the top floor, and spun down until it landed on a ledge...luckily the area below isn't open to the public. The video also showed them flying well over 1,000ft AGL, within an airspace corridor, so the owner might be in some legal trouble. I was surprised how small, and light the machine was to be able to fly that high, and carry a camera....I want one now

 

[fordmantpw]

Awesome! Would love to get one in a year or so just for aerial monitoring and viewing of our land. You know, as a toy!

 

[xp190]

Lipo batteries are dangerous when damaged or mistreated, when stored properly after inspection to make sure they are fine, nothing will happen. I was a bit paranoid about this also, but if you do a bit of research, you will see that all the batteries that explode have been shorted in some way, either the leads were pinched by an aluminum case, or there was a flight mishap that didn't seem to have damaged the battery yet it did, or a charger failed. Once they are involved in a crash or incident, you put them in a water/salt solution to slowly discharge and dispose of them after a week. Aside from that, they are an amazing piece of technology, but their successor is already out on the market the LiFe battery, all the power, none of the danger from what I'm hearing.

I fly planes and helios, no autopilot for me

10 minute flights from a 3S Lipo are so very relaxing....

xp

 

[The Fred]

Do you have liability insurance when doing work for friends?

Curious if AMA will cover drones if you are a member.

Academy of Model Aeronautics

Cool stuff for sure, Fred

 

[QuasarZ]

My buddy had a quad copter and it decided to quit flying over a lake. Had to hire a diver to go find it which they did.

I think they are very cool pieces of equipment. If I ever get some extra cash I'd look into one.

 

[Cherokee140]

There are some very narrow guidelines with the AMA and their insurance, you only fly at an AMA approved field....that right there is a biggie, and that alone will exclude 99% of multirotor flyers. As is I personally only know of one case where a guy was flying in an open field at a business park and crashed his plane on the roof. It was after hours and he could not get access to the building. Fire started.....he is responsible for the damages.

Do you have liability insurance when doing work for friends?

Curious if AMA will cover drones if you are a member.

Academy of Model Aeronautics

Cool stuff for sure, Fred

 

[Cherokee140]

I don't want to get into a debate on lipo batteries, but I can tell you never had a mishap. I have. I had a battery do what I think the battery did in GM's link. I flew, landed put it in my pocket, took out another flew again, went down to the basement checked the voltage on both packs. 3.84 across all 3 cells on both packs....cool I can extend my time a little more, put them on the table and went up stairs. Next thing I know the smoke alarm is going off. No short, no crash, not charging, I lost one charger 3 batteries, my cell tester, and the carpet on top of my work bench. Really put the fear in me as I thought just like you do. Now when they come off the model they go in an ammo can. I already charged in a large 20mm ammo can....but what the ****. And the smoke was bad.

In all my years I had never flown a multirotor till abot 3 months ago. I started in the mid 80's with gas and balsa....and I must admit I was very anti foam/electric thinking that those guys had it too easy, I was spending months building models and here are these things that look pretty darn good, fly real good, and they have them in the air in an hour and not 3 months....that is crap, how will they ever learn. Then I tried one.....just this year I converted my last model over to electric.....a 64" P39 running on a 6cell pack. I flew heli's for a long while, same deal as above....then got a Trex....god this is so much fun. Now this. Alt hold, circle, loiter...program a mission.....I must admit I only looked into the multi rotors because work is looking at them (I am in law enforcement) so I had better learn about this stuff as I was tasked with this project as I am the only one here that does RC planes. Same deal, as above, these people are not earning their dues.....but now that I have played with them I can see what kind of tool it can be. I can see lost kids, old folks that wonder off.....I can set a search grid over a corn field and just watch the video back....what once took 5 deputies to cover now takes 2.....and it is done in no time at all. Very good tool.

The units I bought for home, I really bought to learn a little more about this end of the hobby. And truth be known I have not flown a plane in about a month.....I have been spending all my time flying the multi rotors....infact in the video I posted you can see the outline of my runway.....I need to get to mowing that soon....I have not touched it in a while.

Lipo batteries are dangerous when damaged or mistreated, when stored properly after inspection to make sure they are fine, nothing will happen. I was a bit paranoid about this also, but if you do a bit of research, you will see that all the batteries that explode have been shorted in some way, either the leads were pinched by an aluminum case, or there was a flight mishap that didn't seem to have damaged the battery yet it did, or a charger failed. Once they are involved in a crash or incident, you put them in a water/salt solution to slowly discharge and dispose of them after a week. Aside from that, they are an amazing piece of technology, but their successor is already out on the market the LiFe battery, all the power, none of the danger from what I'm hearing.

I fly planes and helios, no autopilot for me

10 minute flights from a 3S Lipo are so very relaxing....

xp

 

[Dutch445]

i can sit and watch these videos for hours. north of me there is a guy that films
around alex bay on the st lawrence, they are great videos of the river, ships, just
great footage to see from above.
online you can see videos people post from various flights, over landmarks,
and some beautiful scenery. i see online clubs dedicated to them, and some even
have "merit badges" for hitting certain milestones, flying so high/far/long etc.
i had this idea of moving to a vacation area, someplace warm and sunny, and going
into business taking people's vacation videos from a drone, i can see folks buying into it,
but from the looks of it the FAA probably wouldn't approve.
i thought about my trip to florida last fall, kayaking around an island, encountering manatees
and gators and getting some of it on video from above, yup i'd have paid for that.
and yea, the idea of having one for a toy around the house still sounds fun!

 

[Cherokee140]

The unit in your video looks like a Walkera QR X350. s that right? Are you happy with it? One of my uses is to video pistol matches from down range. I just need to be sure my buddies don't shoot too high!

Mine is a Cheerson CX-20/Quanum Nova. Mine is actually the open source Nova. It uses the APM autopilot.

I have found it quite relaxing to fly....the closest thing I can think of is a glider....it is really just relaxing. Set the altitude and just motor around...quite fun.