Mowing Mowing on slopes

[pequeajim]

I am very interested in the PT 425. Thanks Moss and the rest of you for the very informative posts!

I own a 31hp gas Ventrac 4200 VXD and use it mostly for mowing. I am however going to be doing a lot of digging and clearing on my 5 acres of ground over the next few years. My primary use will still be mowing 3 acres of ground. I do not care if the cut is golf course perfect, but do want at least a good cut of the grass.

I live in Lancaster county PA and will be working on the side of a very large hill. 20 deg, and 25 deg slope.

I have a couple of questions about the 425. I thought I read somewhere that it is not as stable as the Ventrac? Would it be more stable than say a Kubota BX?

How does it cut compared to a VT?

Quality of build compared to the VT?

How about mowing up and down hills, power when the PTO is running, cutting up the hill? I'm concerned about only 25hp?

I LOVE the ability to raise the bucket pretty high!

Any thoughts?

 

[Bob999]

25 degree slopes are a bit beyond the capabilities of the 425. PT says the 1430 will do up to 30 degrees but when I visited PT and tried the 1430 on a 30 degree slope I was not comfortable--at least in part because of the lack of an emergency braking system. I ended up buying the 1845 and have never been sorry.

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN!

A fellow TBNer that goes by the name of Bob just went through the process of finding the best mower for his slopes. He bought a Ventrac 3000. Here's a link to his comparrison of a PT422 side by side to a Ventrac on his property. I think he made the right decision for his needs.

As for slopes in general, the PT425 that I have is rated to 25 degrees due to the oiling system on the Kohler engine. I was out brushhogging today and I have a hill that hits 20 to 25 degrees in some places. Brush hoggin down hill is, of course, no problem. Gravity is your buddy. Going up hill, I had to lift the brush hog just enough to get its wheels off the ground. This transferrs the weight of the brush hog to the tractor and really improves the traction. At that point, I never ran out of power, but ran out of traction with my turf tires not being able to get a grip on the sandy soil covered with chopped, wet sticks and leaves. Bar tread tires or chains would have helped in that situation. And the PT425s that they are selling now have different wheel motors than mine that are supposed to provide even more torque.

As far as stability, I can honestly say that I have never tipped over a PT425 or a Kubota BX, so I can't tell you which one is better. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can tell you that I went on some very steep side slopes today that I would never take a conventional tractor on for fear of roll over. I wouldn't have taken my yard tractor there, either. The slopes are uncomfortable to walk on. I will measure them some day and let everyone how steep they really are.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures of those slopes. I did, however, take some nice fall pictures. Attached is one of a small field that is about half an acre. It sits at the entrance to our property and evetually will be a small orchard. There was heavy grass in this field and I had to go at a slow walking pace to get through it. Funny how foot high grass is much harder to brush hog than 2 inch saplings /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[MossRoad]

Picture 2 attached shows the PT425 on our trailer chained down and about ready to go home. Notice the debris all over it.

 

[MossRoad]

Last picture for now shows a close up of the front of the unit covered with pine needles and branches.

One thing I like about the Power Trac design is that it is so low to the ground compared to other Compact Utility Tractors. It gives it very good stability. I have never felt uncomfortable on any slope that I have ever had it on.

The attachments out front are great. The brush hog kills everything before you get to it. On a conventional CUT I would have had to back into most of the stuff on our trails and that would have taken a very long time. Today, with the PT425, in about an hour and a half, I brush hogged about 1.5 miles of trails three passes wide, plus the 1/2 acre field in the first picture. Nothing had been cut since last year. In some places the weeds were 6-7 feet high, like in the videos on my Power Trac website. I took out several hundred 1-2 inch saplings and ground them into oblivion. I killed about 20 multi flora rose bushes that were every bit of 10 feet across and 6 feet high. They are no more. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif I can't even begin to imagine what a job the larger Power Tracs could handle. That would just be awsome! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[pequeajim]

Thanks Moss for the great replies! I have a Ventrac 4200 with 30 hours on it. Why would I consider something else?

Although I do a fair amount of mowing, (2.5 acres), I am now doing a lot of digging, cutting, moving, etc out in my yard. The hydraulic system on the 4200 does not seem to get the job done. I have the slip scoop and I really can't dig a lot more than soft dirt. It will lift some things, but is really more of a motorized wheelbarrel and not any kind of serious digging tool.

What is attracting my interest in the PT is it's ability to so some serious work with the accessories that you can buy. The ground clearance is terriffic (without having to put on a front end loader!).

The Ventrac is a great mowing macine and handles slopes great, but I can go up and down the slopes when I mow. I am curious about your comment of a limitation of 20 degrees because of the oil systems on your engine??

There is someone local that I am going to visit to see a 425 in person. In fact, i believe there are two people on here from my area and I hope to talk to them both to get their opinions.

My 4200 is so new, I'm sure I could get enought out of it with the deck, duals and slip scoop to buy a PT.

I just need to go through my own evaluation process.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Since you have the 4200, I think you would be well off investing in the full front end loader attachment, it will dig and recently Ventrac did a demo where they had a prair of 4200's dig a hole as deep as the tractors and then pile the dirt on the end of the hole and climb up the mound from the bottom of the hole. Pictures of the action are posted somewhere on TBN by JackIL who is a Ventrac owner and former engineer (?) for John Deere. He posted the pictures within the last couple of weeks, I think you might want to do a search to find them. The Ventrac will easily dig what you need dug. A guy about a mile away from me bought a 4200 and dug a small pond (about 30' by 40') with it.

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, Bob. I saw those pictures, too. Looked pretty good. Nice deep excavation. Looked like one of the Ventracs had a front end loader on it and the other had a scoop or box type attachment.

 

[MossRoad]

<font color="blue"> Thanks Moss for the great replies! </font>

I aim to please! (I also have a sleep disorder /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif).

The oil system on my Kohler is limited to 25 degrees. If you exceed that angle for any amount of time, the engine will not pick up oil out of the sump and will stop lubricating the internal parts. That's a bad thing. I don't know what the Robin engines are rated for. In the larger Power Tracs they have Deutz diesels. I know nothing about them.

What area of the country are you in?

 

[pequeajim]

Thanks for the input Bob. I know jack and he did send me the pic of the front end loader. It is not cheap and I am not sure that it has the digging power and hydraulic ummpf that the PTs do?

I tried to lift out some sidewalk slabs in the front of my house and neither my or my neighbor's 4200 could get them out of the dirt. I was suporised to say the least.

I wonder what the lift capability of the slip scoop is compared to a 425?

 

[pequeajim]

I am in Lancaster County, PA (central). Is this 25 degrees at any angle, like going up and down a slope?

Man, I have to get out and measure my slopes!!

I noticed on your web site that you have to greese every 8 hours? Is this the case with the newer 425 as well? Seem like a bit of effort?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="blue"> I wonder what the lift capability of the slip scoop is compared to a 425?
</font>

I honestly don't know and will plead ignorance but I will tell you that I've learned a lot about FELs over the past year and am generally surprised by the vast differences in capacities of the units on what many people might consider to be similar size tractors. I would tend to think that a slab of concrete is more than either a 4200 or a PT425 is going to easily lift, for that matter I think it would be a challenge for either CUT I use and both of those have break out ratings of over 1000#. Concrete is heavy stuff and concrete walkways are basically stuck to the ground as if they are glued to the dirt. I think you might be asking a bit too much of the machines (either the Ventrac or the PT425) if you think that you will be able to easily lift " <font color="blue"> some sidewalk slabs </font>"

By the way there are 2 different scoops for the Ventrac, one is designed for digging.

 

[MossRoad]

Greasing every 8 hours is no problem. It takes about 10-15 minutes and gives me a reason to inspect the machine often. I think this will make the machine last longer, as I will be more likely to notice any small problems before they become big ones.

 

[pequeajim]

Some good points. Yep, I knew about the different scoops for the Ventrac, actually three if you include the slip scoop, the execvation and then the front end loader.

Maybe I was asking too much from the Ventrac. I really do like the PTs ability to get the load up in the air like a FE loader. Plus, I could really use the little hoe for some mild shaping around a stream that I have.

The comments that I have heard about the PT is that the hydraulic system is overly heavy duty for the size of the tractor. THe Ventrac does not give me that impression.

 

[MossRoad]

I cut up a concrete slab a couple years ago at a little league. I had four pieces that were about 4 feet by 3 feet by 6 inches thick. I was able to leverage them out of the ground with the forks using the curl motion of the FEL, but was not able to lift them. I was able to skid them on the forks to where I wanted them and I was able to flip them over, but the rear of the tractor would come off the ground if I tried to lift them.

At our school I was able to pop out of the ground and carry away some large chunks of concrete that were about 2 feet long, 18 inches wide and 18 inches deep. That's 4.5 cubic feet of concrete. That's somewhere around 650 pounds, as best I can guess. Not bad for a machine that weighs about 1300 pounds. Not too many tractors with a 48" wheel base can lift half their weight. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[pequeajim]

I looked at the Ventrac website and even their front end loader only has a 500lb capacity. That makes sense with what I see that my 4200 can do. I have moved some pretty big logs, but it does not have the versitility that the PT seems to have.

Of course, there are always tradeoffs with any two tractors. I expect that the VT mows a bit better, but the PT is a better worker with it's attachments. Also, it looks like the attachments that mean the most to me are quite a bit cheaper from PT?

 

[MossRoad]

The Ventracs are sweet machines. I have never seen one in person, and have never seen the quality of the cut on the finish mower. I am very satisfied with the quality of the cut that I get from the finish mower on our PT425. I think the Ventrac will out mow the PT on steep hills. Don't know about flat land. The Ventrac has an automatic weight transfer system. The PT 425 has a manual one... you reach over and pull back on the joystick until the mower lifts off the ground, which adds the weight of the mower hanging off of 4 foot long levers to the front tires of the tractor. If the mower weighs 200 pounds, think about how much it weighs on the end of the lift arms. In effect you can instantly add 3 or 4 hundred pounds of weight to the front tires for traction. Not only does the mower weight go onto the front tires, but the rear of the tractor becomes lighter and that weight has to go onto the front tires, too.

These little articulated tractors, the PTs and the Ventracs and Stieners and all the rest, are really amazing machines.

Well, my sleep disorder has just caught up with me, and I have to get up in 5 hours. Keep asking those questions. Bob is a wealth of knowledge and has experience with tractors of many shapes and sizes. TBN in general has about a bazillion folks that are all willing to share knowlege with you.

So, how do you like your first day on TBN? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Talk to you all tomorrow(or the next day). Goodnight, TBN.

David G.

 

[pequeajim]

Does the mower "float" on the 425?

 

[Schultz]

In one of the post that I read someone inquired about weight transfer on the 425 and they mentioned PT charged somthing like $650 for it. It was off of the 18series I think. This might be somthing to call and talk to PT about.

Tim

 

[MuncyBob]

FYI...the mower does float on both the 425 and 422...and I would suspect it floats on all PT's. The joystick control for the front end hyrdaulics is simply pushed forward all the way and the mower is then floating. If you do any large amount of mowing on a regular basis you will need to clean out the wheel motor wells as the rear discharge of the grass clippings accumulates there...esp. in the driver side wheel(at least on the 422)...but the mower does mulch the grass well so a leaf blower will get most of the stuff out for you.