Backhoe Moving backhoe over ditch

[Claytonfarms]

So I am in the process of installing a new septic drainfield. I have a ditch 8 feet deep, 2 feet wide and 60 feet long.

I need to fill 6 feet with stone. The stone is about baseball size, not the easiest to move. I need to get the backhoe over the ditch to spread and level the stone. The soil is a little sandy so if the tires get close, the sides cave in and in a couple of spots I had to remove tree stumps to the trench is a little wider.

I can swing the machine over the hole in places but at others the soil is too soft. Any ideas?

I have thought of using railroad ties to make a bridge but I do not know their strength or where to get some quick.

I have an old Ford 550 backhoe and I am worried about too much pressure on the swing chains moving the machine back and forth over the ditch.

 

[Gator6x4]

If you have a Lowe's in your area, check them for the railroad cross ties.

 

[Sodo]

Boy I hope you have someone with heavy eqpt experience around when you do this. Careful using posts for beams, if there's a knot in the post it might not hold weight. You don't really know about RRties, they were made to sit in a gravel bed, and may have been out in the weather for 30 years.

Better think the ditch as 3 feet wide. Maybe go at an angle, can your stabilizer and backhoe bucket reach across to the other side and hold some of the weight? Consider to put a vertical post 8 feet down from the middle of your beam to the bottom of the trench (if its a firm bottom).

 

[whis]

Can you straddle the ditch

 

[jenkinsph]

For a ditch 60 feet long to level I would use a rake or cultivator hoe to level it by hand. Probably could level it out by hand in less time than it takes to explain how to do it with the backhoe. I hope you have some smaller rock covering the perforated pipe as the larger rock you mentioned could damage it.

 

[texas42]

You have a potentially dangerous situation here. First and foremost DO NOT go in the trench as it could cave in unexpectedly with no warning trapping or burying a person. Additionally, an 8 foot deep trench has a possible slip line at least 8 feet horizontally from the top of the trench. Therefore, a RR tie is not long enough to safely support you over the trench. A somewhat safe method might be to buy extra stone so you can completely fill the trench with stone. Then straddle the trench and excavate the top 2 feet and discard the 2 foot of stone you dig out. However, without knowing your soil conditions one could not be sure this is entirely safe. Not trying to be the safety police but trench cave-ins are serious accidents and quite often fatal.

 

[jenkinsph]

An experienced installer would dump the stone in with a fel carefully enough that there would be little work left to smooth it out. Once you have the stone filled in the six feet mentioned in the first post I don't see a problem with working it by hand to finish it off.

I would not go in the trench while empty as that would be unsafe.

 

[CurlyDave]

I agree with the idea of not entering the trench. Even a 4 foot trench can kill you if it collapses on your legs and causes deep vein thrombosis, which is very common in this situation. And 8 footer can do a lot worse damage, possibly just bury you outright. Especially if the sides are sandy as you mention.

I think that the trench can be filled with stone with the FEL alone, working from the sides to all the accuracy required. This is a septic field, not a precise foundation. +/- 6" is probably good enough. The higher you fill the trench, the more safe this becomes. Top it off with the dirt you took from the top of the trench and back drag to smooth it out.

P.S. Around here, we would use much smaller stone for filling the trench around the pipe. How do you avoid damaging the pipe dropping baseball sized rock onto it from 8' above?

 

[dragoneggs]

Yep... danger, Will Robinson. Depending on soil type the 'slip' could be minimal but to be very conservative, figure 45deg a natural shear angle. That is very unstable soil. But it really is also a function of weight. For many soils this would be a very conservative . I know I have been cheating this in my rocky/sandy/loam soil. Slow, careful, and focused around that ditch! I think this is a pretty good guide. If you are 8ft deep then stay 4ft back with medium weight equipment.

 

[jenkinsph]

Claytonfarms,
Can you provide a little more details? What depth is the perforated pipe? I am a little curious how you are placing the the pipe in the hole? Why is the rock so large?

 

[RBA50]

I'm Confused (easy enough to do). Is this a circular ditch? If not, I would begin filling at one end, and as the ditch is filled back over (straddle) the ditch that has been filled. Once it's filled there should not be a problem with collapse. Just don't back past the filled area, and use the reach of the backhoe to stay as far away as possible from the open area. Also curious about the size of the rock. If you can't fill from the end, the FEL would be my choice.but as noted above, the large rock could be damaging to the pipe.

 

[JoeL4330]

Not sure I understand the ins and outs, but: fill liberally to 8 feet (i.e., level) in places where you need support, or to cross, and then remove two feet from those "overfilled" areas and re-position stone ? I can see needing to cross the ditch from time to time, but no need to straddle: "over"-filling stone w. bucket and then nudging it w. hoe can be done from sides, no? ...or, am I misunderstanding?

 

[Claytonfarms]

The ditch is 8 feet deep, filled 6 feet with the big stone, then pipe, then backfilled. I have no idea why so deep, stone size, etc. that is what the health dept. wants. The reasons for crossing are that we are building in the woods, and we had to remove a bunch of trees to install the system. If we removed a stump, there may be a hole of very soft soil as big as 6-8 feet around. I will not get my FEL close to that. 14,000 lbs I am sure the sides will collapse. Thus we over filled the trench with stone and I need to cross it to spread the stone. Even with a backhoe that big stone does not want to move. Hand leveling is out of the question.

Due to the depth of the trench we can dig a little then spread the stone but I can only fill so far before the stone starts to get in the way of digging.

 

[JoeL4330]

some sort of dragline bucket arrangement to move/level stone?

 

[LD1]

I am confused as all get out too.

Have you dug the ditch yet?? Thats easy to do without crossing anything, start at one end and go toward the other.

What is the issue with filling that you cant use the front end loader. Probably lots faster than the hoe anyway.

Dig the trench, fill with stone with the FEL, lay pipe, then backfill with dirt with the FEL??????

 

[dragoneggs]

I am confused as all get out too.

Have you dug the ditch yet?? Thats easy to do without crossing anything, start at one end and go toward the other.

What is the issue with filling that you cant use the front end loader. Probably lots faster than the hoe anyway.

Dig the trench, fill with stone with the FEL, lay pipe, then backfill with dirt with the FEL??????

Yeah it seems simple and obvious... I am thinking the OP is worried about caving in being too close and getting tractor stuck, IDK.

 

[LD1]

Yea. Seems simple and straight forward to me. Dig the trench, fill all but 2' with stone, lay pipe, backfill, then spread the leftover dirt

 

[Mechanos]

It's easy if your FEL has an antigravity bucket.

 

[workinallthetime]

what area of the country requires a leach field to be 8 feet deep? around here we are not allowed to go deeper then 4 feet due to the septic contaminating the ground water. Is this the tight line from the house to the tank? or the field pipe? i think code here is 300 feet minimum with additional 100 feet per full bath.
crossing a ditch with a bh is pretty easy when absolutly necessary, if the machine cant handle it rent one that can for a day or so.
remember pay day is on friday, dont lick your fingers and effulent runs down hill but not more than 1/4 inch per foot!!

 

[jenkinsph]

The ditch is 8 feet deep, filled 6 feet with the big stone, then pipe, then backfilled. I have no idea why so deep, stone size, etc. that is what the health dept. wants. The reasons for crossing are that we are building in the woods, and we had to remove a bunch of trees to install the system. If we removed a stump, there may be a hole of very soft soil as big as 6-8 feet around. I will not get my FEL close to that. 14,000 lbs I am sure the sides will collapse. Thus we over filled the trench with stone and I need to cross it to spread the stone. Even with a backhoe that big stone does not want to move. Hand leveling is out of the question.

Due to the depth of the trench we can dig a little then spread the stone but I can only fill so far before the stone starts to get in the way of digging.

I think you are overly concerned about the stump holes, use your backhoe to tamp the holes and compact them. Over filling the trench was a mistake imo. but might be a good place to use to straddle the ditch.

Lots of problems and issues with this ditch, unless the percolation if very good 60 ft of trench isn't much and may cause premature failure of the field. The stone seems to be too large to be in contact with the field pipe and will be hard to smooth and grade. If you do get it smoothed out and pipe in place you might want to add a layer or two of landscape cloth to keep the dirt out of the rock layer when backfilling.