Modern Pow'r Pup questions

[DIYjunkie]

So for a while I've been wanting to build a pow'r pup tractor. Older plans call for using a Ford Model A axle and 3 speed transmission, however both are incredibly hard to get a hold of. I was thinking using a Ford 9" or 8.8" rear axle and a 3 speed with granny gear transmission (T18 or Sm465) and cut the axle to about 40" overall. One thing the plans never stated was doing steering brakes. I was thinking just using two master cylinders on 2 brake pedals and blocking off one of the lines on the master cylinder and just run one line to each brake. However I'm not 100% sure that would even work. Option 2 was to just run the emergency brake cables to the pedals instead of having hydraulic brakes, but I'm not sure if that would be effective enough.

Another option I thought of doing was using a Peerless 820 transaxle and just do 2 8" go kart disc brakes on the axles. However my plans for the tractor are using it for plowing a garden, discing/cultivating, snowplowing or front loader. I'm not sure how well that transaxle would hold up to any of those tasks. I'd like to stay with the more traditional design and use truck parts vs garden tractor parts.

I have a background in welding and have decent fabrication skills. I tend to over build things so they can hold up to abuse without trouble. Frame would be 2"x4"x10ga rectangle tubing. Cat 0 hydraulic 3 point hitch. Harbor Freight 420cc Predator engine with a GM 3 wire alternator.

 

[aczlan]

Another option on brakes would be a pair of line locks within reach of the driver, or single circuit master cylinders.

Aaron Z

 

[DIYjunkie]

Never heard of line locks, care to elaborate?

 

[MossRoad]

Never heard of line locks, care to elaborate?

People use them in drag racing. It locks the front brakes on a car with an electric solenoid. That way, you can do burnouts by locking the front brakes while you spin the rear wheels to heat up the tires for better traction.

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a wiki on it...
Line lock - Wikipedia

 

[DIYjunkie]

That's definitely an interesting way and relatively cheap idea to lock the brakes individually.

 

[RBA50]

Why a Cat 0 3 pt hitch? I had a tractor with that a few years back. It was possible to find implements that could be used, but a Cat 1 would have been much better. I guess if you already have some implements for Cat 0 it would make sense.

 

[davedj1]

Get a 8.8 out of a Ford Ranger pickup, cheap, solid and readily available. Narrow the long side so you can use a short side shaft in that side. If you get lucky and find one with disc brakes. I would do the dual master cylinders.

 

[countrybumpkin]

For the brakes you could get a steering brake setup for a dune buggy , let’s you have a single peddle for normal stopping or use one of the handles to help steer.

Dual Handle Upright Steering Brake With 3/4 Bore For Disc Brakes

 

[GLyford]

If you're scrounging, older cars before double circuit brakes had single circuit masters. Like 50s-60s VW bugs. Some of those parts are still pretty easy/cheap to find as replacements. Clutch masters are also single circuit (though not all of them are set up to use metal lines).

 

[DIYjunkie]

Why a Cat 0 3 pt hitch? I had a tractor with that a few years back. It was possible to find implements that could be used, but a Cat 1 would have been much better. I guess if you already have some implements for Cat 0 it would make sense.

It's a toss up right now for me which one to go with. Cat 1 does have more to choose from, since it's way more mainstream than Cat 0. I think it's just a pin size difference between those two and the dimensions were the same correct?

Get a 8.8 out of a Ford Ranger pickup, cheap, solid and readily available. Narrow the long side so you can use a short side shaft in that side. If you get lucky and find one with disc brakes. I would do the dual master cylinders.

That's the plan. Would need one out of a Ranger with the 4.0 or an Explorer/Mountaineer with the 4.0 or 5.0. The smaller engine Rangers (3.0 and 2.3) used the 7.5 rear end. Not that it would matter much, but I think my gear selection would be better with the 8.8. Gear wise I was thinking 4.56 in the rear end.

If you're scrounging, older cars before double circuit brakes had single circuit masters. Like 50s-60s VW bugs. Some of those parts are still pretty easy/cheap to find as replacements. Clutch masters are also single circuit (though not all of them are set up to use metal lines).

That was one option I was looking at last night, however, I'm not sure if it would work on Ford brakes. Something about different piston size on the master cylinder can cause the system not to work.

 

[davedj1]

It might be easier to get a front Dana 30 Jeep axle and shorten the long side and use a short axle then weld the knuckles straight. They can be had cheap and are plentiful for parts.

 

[aczlan]

That was one option I was looking at last night, however, I'm not sure if it would work on Ford brakes. Something about different piston size on the master cylinder can cause the system not to work.

Its all in the ratios in bore diameter and throw of the master, vs the caliper.
You need to see how much fluid the caliper needs to move and that will tell you how big the master cylinder needs to be and how much throw it needs.

Aaron Z

 

[CADplans]

What does all that axle fab get you that a used Cub Cadet garden tractor does not have?

The old tractors were fabricated out of old car parts,,, because there were no used tractors to purchase,,

You can have a JD 650 for a couple grand, 4WD, pto, 3PH,,, diesel,,, and on,, and on,,,

My biggest concern on my tractor is,,,
"Where do I clean/wax next??"

and,,, I can cut grass with it,, if I want to,,,

ohhh,, and the 2 cylinder diesel sounds soooo good!! :thumbsup:

 

[DIYjunkie]

I don't exactly have a disposable income to buy something out right. Yeah I've thought about getting a large garden tractor, but at this point i don't have that kind of income. It's easier for me to save buy parts at a time and the steel...little here little there.

 

[davedj1]

What does all that axle fab get you that a used Cub Cadet garden tractor does not have?

The old tractors were fabricated out of old car parts,,, because there were no used tractors to purchase,,

You can have a JD 650 for a couple grand, 4WD, pto, 3PH,,, diesel,,, and on,, and on,,,

My biggest concern on my tractor is,,,
"Where do I clean/wax next??"

and,,, I can cut grass with it,, if I want to,,,

ohhh,, and the 2 cylinder diesel sounds soooo good!! :thumbsup:

Not sure where you are but in my area the only thing "a couple grand" buys you is a pile of crap. You can't even buy a 50 year old 9N for 2 k here.
Send me the info and I'll buy all the 2k diesel 4x4 tractors I can find.

 

[DIYjunkie]

About a year ago, someone in Minnesota was selling an International Cub for $4500. Only came with a cultivator I believe. At the time, I thought it was a glorified garden tractor, because I've only had heard about the L and LA John Deere tractors.

You have to look very hard to find good deals like that... $2000 for a small 4x4 tractor would be nice and hard to find in decent condition that doesn't require much work.


Just browsed Lincoln Craigslist and found a JD425 with pto tiller for $5500. Way more than what I'm willing to pay up front.

 

[DIYjunkie]

I forgot to ask, besides buying a used garden tractor, if I wanted to add power steering to this tractor, what size hydraulic cylinder would I need to use bore and stroke size?

 

[RBA50]

It's a toss up right now for me which one to go with. Cat 1 does have more to choose from, since it's way more mainstream than Cat 0. I think it's just a pin size difference between those two and the dimensions were the same correct?.

Not really, there is a difference in the dimensions, the Cat 1 is wider and probably taller. There are spec charts online, or do a search on this forum, they've been posted before.

 

[davedj1]

I forgot to ask, besides buying a used garden tractor, if I wanted to add power steering to this tractor, what size hydraulic cylinder would I need to use bore and stroke size?

Not a very big one. I just fixed one on a 4x4 JD tractor (about 30 hp) and it is tiny. I would guess about a 3/4" rod and a 1.25 bore. Depending on the geometry of the set up the stroke will have to be determined.