Mig or stick?

[dragoneggs]

I've been learning to weld. Guy that is teaching me told me to start with stick because MIG would be much easier and stick will do thicker and dirtier stuff...like rusty farm equipment.

He recommended a Lincoln 210 MP as "probably the only machine you'll ever need.

I've had my frustrations with stick welding but am improving. Today I decided to set my machine up for self-shielded MIG and to try it out.

WOW is this ever easier!

This morning I had trepidation about my ability to do things like add metal to the top of an old bush hog or install hooks on my tractor bucket. I was worried about burning thru the metal and then what would I do? (more metal, obviously).

Now I think those are jobs I can tackle with less fear of screwing up my equipment.

I see the value in stick welding. I like the challenge of learning stick welding. I plan to keep practicing.

However, I'm VERY glad I tried MIG welding with my machine!

What a blast!

MIG is fun! I haven't stick welded since a college class almost 40 years ago and cannot see me ever doing it again.

 

[Sodo]

In my understanding, the mig weld would be more brittle and break easier.

This can be true. A MIG weld done wrong -OR- a bird-poop stick weld? Which is weaker? A bad weld is a bad weld. A good weld is strong. It's about that simple.

A problem with spending along time slogging thru the stick-weld phase - you will put bird poop on LOTS of your stuff, doing poor repairs, messing up and scabbing a lot of your stuff for a long time (unless you have good help). With MIG, you can learn to make good welds and good repairs a lot sooner. And your eqpt will be repaired and serviceable a lot sooner. MIG is as a much more productive machine.

I've been learning to weld. Guy that is teaching me told me to start with stick because MIG would be much easier and stick will do thicker and dirtier stuff...like rusty farm equipment.

Lucky you have someone to teach you stick. It's more than just a curiosity or a sport, you may need it someday. But maybe not. There's often a statement about welding dirty or rusted items being better with a stick welder. This CAN be true, but 18volt angle grinders have also been invented, and weld preparation gets a lot easier without cords. In general if you don't have an 18v angle grinder, you are behind the curve in that case as well.

Now I think those are jobs I can tackle with less fear of screwing up my equipment.
I see the value in stick welding. I like the challenge of learning stick welding. I plan to keep practicing.
However, I'm VERY glad I tried MIG welding with my machine!
What a blast!

This is the reality. Stick has its place but there is a REASON you can find stick welders dusty in a corner of the shop. Because MIG does most of what people need, far easier and better, faster, more success and looks better too. Lots of stuff breaks because it's thin. Consequently it's too thin to stick-weld, thus an item easily repairable by a newby welder is "un-repairable" even to a veteran stick-welder (= scrap). It's so EASY to MIG weld you just repair the dang thing and move on.

Also a lot of people make their stuff too thick and heavy, not because it needs to be that heavy but SIMPLY because they can't weld the material thickness that's appropriate for the project.

 

[Ritothebull]

Regardless of what type of welding you are doing the most important thing is getting the proper setup for your application. This is much easier to do with stick welding so I would definitely recommend stick for a beginner unless you have someone thats experienced to help you get started with a mig. And like everything else theres alot of guys around that think their experts so choose your instructor wisely.

 

[dragoneggs]

Regardless of what type of welding you are doing the most important thing is getting the proper setup for your application. This is much easier to do with stick welding so I would definitely recommend stick for a beginner unless you have someone thats experienced to help you get started with a mig. And like everything else theres alot of guys around that think their experts so choose your instructor wisely.

Ummm... I tend to disagree a bit here other than set up most important. I find MIG pretty easy. Just error on providing too much heat vs. not enough. Hold the gun at at a constant distance vs. 'manually' feeding (moving in) using your hand. Drawing a line in the dark is hard enough but drawing and feeding (stick) adds a little complexity. Just my :2cents:

 

[Jeepnford]

I'm going against the grain but when I started welding I was taking some classes and they usually start you on gas and stick. I did fairly well on gas but learned stick welding much easier than mig. I bought a Miller 251 however and since I didn't have a stick welder my mig eventually got better. Now that I own an inverter stick/tig and a transformer stick along with the mig I've been working on maintaining some skill level on both.

 

[Shield Arc]

when I started welding I was taking some classes and they usually start you on gas and stick.

I always wondered why welding schools start you out on 6010. I guess it is to teach you puddle control, and how to read the puddle. It is amazing how many people have no idea how to read the puddle.

 

[BufordBoone]

I always wondered why welding schools start you out on 6010. I guess it is to teach you puddle control, and how to read the puddle. It is amazing how many people have no idea how to read the puddle.

What rods would you recommend a beginner start on?

The guy teaching me mentioned 6010 and 7018. However, the machine he recommended (Lincoln MP210) won't run 6010. It runs 6011 fine and, I'm told, there is very little difference between 6010 and 6011.

Thoughts?

 

[Shield Arc]

What rods would you recommend a beginner start on?

I'm teaching a kid how to weld right now. He has a hard time starting 7018. Even with the hot start on my V350-Pro set really high. He can start 6010 a lot better. So it makes since to start with 6010, or 6011.

 

[BufordBoone]

Thanks, Shield Arc.

Interestingly enough, I find 7018 easier to start and run that 6011. The main tip I got on 7018 was to keep a file handy. If (when) I stop, I file the end of the stick with a couple of strokes to expose the metal and start-up is much easier/smoother.

I've been shown that you can jam the tip of the electrode to break some of the flux off but I've also been shown that it is far less desirable than using a file.

On the 6010 vs. 6011 issue, in your opinion is there any practical difference? Everlast has a machine (140) that runs 6011 but won't run 6010. They offer another machine (200) that has a plug just for 6010. It is $120 more. Is the ability to use 6010 worth the extra $?

Thanks, again.

 

[Shield Arc]

I showed the kid how to break the flux off the tip of a 7018 rod. But, I reminded him when doing code welding, never do that! The welding inspectors will have a fit if they see you do that.

 

[4570Man]

My big industrial 3 phase stick welder is nearly fail proof to start an ark and low amperage work isn’t hard either. I can weld 3/32 no problem. Sadly my engine drive welder and any other welder I’ve used is a nightmare compared to it. And all were DC machines.

 

[Sodo]

I can weld 3/32 no problem

..... but you have many years of experience and were forced to learn, because there was no other option except oxy/acet. Right? Nobody __with a MIG nearby__ will weld 3/32 with stick. If they do, it's for the sport of it. Perhaps if the MIG is ancient or poorly-maintained.

Here's some stick welding I did after MIG'ing 36 years. It waslike riding a bicycle. But that's 7018 (sorta cheating).

 

[4570Man]

..... but you have many years of experience and were forced to learn, because there was no other option except oxy/acet. Right? Nobody __with a MIG nearby__ will weld 3/32 with stick. If they do, it's for the sport of it. Perhaps if the MIG is ancient or poorly-maintained.

Here's some stick welding I did after MIG'ing 36 years. It waslike riding a bicycle. But that's 7018 (sorta cheating).

No I did it because I wanted to. I have a mig and use it 90 percent of the time.

 

[Sodo]

For the sport, then. I can understand that.

But per the subject of this thread "MIG or Stick, you wrote "90% MIG". 90+ is typical for experienced (stick) welders in this day and age. I suspect most are 90+ tending towards 98% for lots of reasons. Except for remote / outdoors or sport.

Which is I think the info that the OP was after. And the candid response that most new welders need to read on a forum when they are looking for the best answers. They are about to spend some coin on a tool and don't really need to waste funds on "the legacy path" for another dust catcher in the shop.

Unless you get a stick welder for $50 then it's OK, cuz $50 leaves some $$$ to get a good MIG.

 

[4570Man]

Well I have $0 in my stick welder because my grandpa bought 5 big industrial units at an auction for $250 and sold 1 for $250. He traded 1, lost one and we still have 2. If I was using the typical budget priced stick welder I’d probably throw it in the corner and use in 0 percent of the time.

 

[TractorGuy]

Starting with a stick was always my downfall. I have always had to turn the heat up at least one level above what the chart says. Mind you I only weld 5 or 6 times a year and mostly use my little mig. We had a big Lincoln stick/tig welder at work. I don't remember the model. On mild steel I usually used the 6011 and did okay.

I started out oxi acetylene welding with coat hangers 50 years ago.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Personally, I don't understand people dumping on stick like it isn't used or needed. One estimate puts it as 1/2 of all industrial welding. Over 1/2 of all welding in some countries.

Another estimate, in total filler metal sold, is around 40% just for stick. Mig right behind it naturally.

Some people need it, some just like it, some will never use it - all of those options are great in my opinion.

I use mig, tig and stick as needed. Last year I added mobile welding to my services and found often I only needed 5-10 rods for a repair.
I clearly wouldn't bother to pull out a wire feeder for that.
Mig is awesome when needed, so is tig.

Just my opinions.

 

[dragoneggs]

I don't think folks are 'dumping' on stick. I think many of us can't consider ourselves even 'part time' welders and we don't really need all the processes and MIG is easiest (in my opinion). I really want to learn TIG when I have more time on my hands but I can't really justify a machine that will sit. I could probably say that for stick too except I don't see any reason for me personally to get stick as I am a garage welder. I can see me wanting to play with TIG for aluminum and delicate work.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I don't think folks are 'dumping' on stick. I think many of us can't consider ourselves even 'part time' welders and we don't really need all the processes and MIG is easiest (in my opinion). I really want to learn TIG when I have more time on my hands but I can't really justify a machine that will sit. I could probably say that for stick too except I don't see any reason for me personally to get stick as I am a garage welder. I can see me wanting to play with TIG for aluminum and delicate work.

A good mig machine will definitely do most of what a person needs

Tig welding is great I only stick weld when needed - but sometimes it's actually the best process for what I'm doing.

Having machines that sit bugs me too. My bobcat 225 sits way way more than it gets used.

 

[Sodo]

A good mig machine will definitely do most of what a person needs

This is the information that people need, the reason they’re consulting the forum. People dump on stick welding first of all, because it has been surpassed in utility (40 years ago?) by the MIG, yet there’s always a few forceful forum posters insinuating that stick is the “real welder” - gotta learn stick or yer a poser. Is there a better definition of posing? Than pretending stick is better on the internet while using the MIG in real life?

Its the fakery. When is the last time you saw a commercial mfd trailer with stick? 1980? Its been a LONG time. There are grandkids in that time. Stick is GOOD! Theres no question. But the guy wants to buy into a process, one that will work better, an in most cases its a MIG. Stick is cheaper and some folks can learn it well. The new DC inverter stick machines are easier to start thus easier to learn too.

Attitude causes the backlash. Insecurity causes attitude ? Newby welder needs neither of these impediments. Newby welder should buy a MIG, learn how to use it (make good welds) and start on their projects.