MF165 Problems after lift cover reinstall

[sroy123]

Hi,

I pulled the lift cover on my 1967 165 Massey to put new rings into the lift cylinder. I also added a replacement relief valve in the tractor case. When I put the cylinder on I thought I got the position and draft control lever arms in the correct positions (based on the manual). The cylinder install to the lift cover was easy. Both levers moved stuff around.

Today I got the lift cover back on. I was pretty careful. I went slow.

First I don't have PTO at all. But I bet I don't have the lever arm installed correctly. Least of my problems.

The position control sends the lift arms up but not back down. I hear the engine rpms climb at the top of the travel suggesting that something keeps building pressure in there. Next, if I slide the position lever down and use the draft control, it moves the arms up and down. What?

What I did to recap.

cylinder rings
safety relief valve
I also added an o-ring to the filler cap.
new o-ring between the cylinder and the lift cover.

it is a standard 3 speed low and 3 speed high trans.

I suppose I am going to take that back off and take a look at those lever arms right? Or is there something else going on? would the Pressure relief valve have anything to do with this? Or not getting the side cover on correctly? Wishful thinking.

Anyhow thinks for the input if anyone has anything to offer. I could use some advise.

 

[Harry in Ky]

The pressure relief valve is no part of your problem. In fact, I doubt that anything you replaced is causing it either. You need to revisit the linkage and adjustments. Take the right side cover back off and observe what's happening in there when you move the draft levers up and down. You will see the vertical link contact the roller for the lift pump control valve. That roller should be spring loaded to the full raise position and when you move the levers in the "lower" direction the link should move the roller (against said spring pressure) and thus move the control valve which will let the lift arms go back down.

If you unbolted the linkage bracket from the lift cylinder or got the links out of position during your cylinder/piston ring repair your problem is most likely something to do with how all that went back together. Personally, I've never had much luck following any of the repair manuals adjustment procedures. They always refer to tool number XXX for this adjustment and tool number XYZ for that adjustment. No one ever knows what those tools are, what they look like, or what dimensions here or there they are expected to provide when used . The manuals never explain that.

 

[sroy123]

So when I took the lift cylinder off the lift cover I did it without the manual. As a result the two big springs went flying and the small spring came off as well. I watched a as many videos as I could to see how everything went back together. So when I installed the lift cylinder everything seemed good. I didn't make any adjustments. One video said that if your levers were not in the proper position the lift cylinder wouldn't seat correctly. Well, mine went right down into position. As I moved draft and position prior to install Things seemed to move correctly. I can't exactly tell you what the definition of correctly is, but things seemed correct. Tomorrow after church I will pull the side cover off and see what the levers are doing and make sure that roller is in the correct spot as well. Thanks for the suggestions.

A manual will help you install things but doesn't give you feedback on what you did wrong based on what's happening. LOL

 

[sroy123]

Oh, and I did not unbolt the linkage bracket. it came out when I pulled the cylinder off. So if that is the case shouldn't everything be in proper adjustment?

 

[Harry in Ky]

Once the springs and such come apart lots of things can go wrong before it's all back in proper order. The roller itself is the next question. You took the cover off without a manual? One of the first things mentioned in the manual is to remove the side cover and the roller before lifting the cover off. How did that step go during your operation?

 

[sroy123]

Hi, I knew about the roller based on the videos I watched. I took it off before pulling the cover. But I am wondering if I installed it correctly etc. I really thought this was going to be a straight forward job like a 8n or a 9n ford. I am home from church and I am going to get started. but it looks like rain so we will see how far I get. I will report back with any news if I am able. thanks for the input.

 

[sroy123]

I took the lift cover back off. The lever arms appear to be in the right spot but I am looking into it. As I move the draft lever back and forth I can see the arm hitting the dashpot. When I just use position the lever arm moves slightly but I don't see where it is doing anything to engage anything other than riding on some rollers further down. More research!

 

[sroy123]

Installed and the same problem. I guess back off again. Another day perhaps. The barrel roller is in correctly stan pipe is where it is supposed to go. When I take it back off I am going to remove the lift cylinder housing. the leavers appear in the correct position. I have watched the videos so much I can quote what the guy is saying. Next time it comes back off I am going to try to figure out the adjustments from the factory manual. My copy is poor quality.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Once you raise the lift housing you can't tell anything. Start at the hole for the side cover. With engine off, you should see the roller move when you operate the levers. With both levers full up the arms containing the roller should be in the full raise (pump) position. as you move the levers down the roller should move as well, towards neutral and then to lower. Does that happen?

You should be able (with engine running) to reach in with your finger and control the action of the roller. Push the roller forward and the arms should drop. Let the roller travel rearward and the arms should raise. Does that happen? If so, the pump and control valve are working correctly, you just need to sort out your linkage adjustments.

 

[sroy123]

Once I had the lift cover installed I filled it with oil and left the side cover off and started it. Draft raises and lowers the lift arms. Position does not move the barrel forward. In fact it doesn't do anything. I did notice when the arms are completely up it sounds like there is a load on the engine. Not sure what that is all about.

You are right. At this point I am sure there is a lever not in the correct position or out of adjustment. Both videos I watched complained about it being tricky to install the levers in the cams. Mine went in to easy. It has to be wrong. But it looked correct. Weird.

I found this guy today. at about 8 min in he shows the levers in position. He also shows the movement of everything and adjustments. I wish he lived close. LOL.

Thanks for the advise. I will post back when I get her figured out. I know my way around cars etc... tractors are a great mystery.

 

[sroy123]

actually he starts talking the good stuff at about 6 min in. I wish I would have found this video prior to my second install. But now I have a good idea.

 

[ScipioUSA]

See if this post (and the ones it links to) might help you out.

MF 165 Hydraulics Adjustment / Weak - David P Post Quest - Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Forum

Discussion topic in the forums at Yesterday's Tractors.

forums.yesterdaystractors.com

 

[sroy123]

Ok. Worked on the tractor tonight. It's working correctly. Mostly. LOL. The position and draft levers rides in the quadrant and pick up some rollers. Well tonight I relooked at everything. Turns out that the position looked like it was in the correct position but it wasn't. It needed to go into the quadrant (hoop?) further or I had it sitting on the wrong two rollers. Once I took out the lift cylinder housing I was able to figure it out. I don't see how I messed that up. The above video helped a lot because that nice man moved the draft and position levers and showed how everything operated. That was a huge help.

The only thing left, is when the position control is up I hear the engine bog slightly and keep bogging. If I move the position lever down slightly the bogging goes away. I haven't looked at the other info ScipioUSA sent yet on adjustments but I am hoping I can do that adjustment on the thumb screw that contacts the barrel. If I can't I will have to add a hard stop to prevent the bogging. It isn't bad but I know that isn't correct. I know that the lift cover isn't coming back off. I am over that part of my life. LOL.

Anyhow thanks for the help. My next task is brakes. That looks like a very very fun job. Not.

 

[ScipioUSA]

Brakes arent necessarily so bad if you are just having to do a simple replacement. But if your tires are loaded, BE CAREFUL! They can flip over on you surprisingly easily!

Bigger thing will be if your brakes dont work because they are oil soaked, that turns into a bit more of a project...

 

[klancf51]

I had a similar problem with Position Control on a MF 135 Deluxe. Here is a link to the thread:
Massey Ferguson 135 position control not working. And, like you, I was able to repair it without knowing exactly what adjustment corrected the problem. I still watch this forum to see if someone documents the fix precisely. I'm glad you got the Position Control working, but frankly, I was hoping for more. Anyway, I think we are getting close(r)...

 

[Dman1981]

The one lever is not sitting on the roller
pry spring back and see if
You can get it back on
The quadrant assembly should have two rollers one is for draft other is for position control have seen them rust off also then you can repair it or find good used one
Most that are that old usuallly don’t come apart

 

[Dman1981]

Did you ever get this thing working