Market Watch

[rScotty]

How about the CA high speed railroads? Theres a boondoggle for ya.
And I‘m a real proponent of railroads

That's California at it's best - tryng things that may or may not work out. We sure could use some improvement to our road system. I wish it had worked, but still my hat is off to Californians for their willingness to investment. the rest of the country would be a lot poorer without them. We wouldn't have computers and forums for one thing. Or if we did, they would probably be made by some other country - one willing to invest in a gamble.

That brings up an interesting question, what percent of investments fail? Anyone know?

rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

So you're saying without California, we wouldn’t have any computers or internet forums?

 

[rScotty]

So you're saying without California, we wouldn’t have any computers or internet forums?

No, I'm not saying that. Events shape innovation. And although California is the center of US innovation, I'm sure someone somewhere would have invented and popularized computers and internets and forums.
But that someone might have been in a different country.

 

[newbury]

I sure wish that I had your option. All we have in our area is the slow DSL over the old copper phone lines. It makes for slow internet service. Last year I was excited when I saw crews installing fiber optic lines a few miles away. Then they finished with the installation, 1/2 mile south of my property. When I called the company to see if they would be continuing up my way, they said that that was all the funding they had on the rural internet grant. I would be happy to pay more for better service. And I’m pondering why I still pay for a landline phone when all I get are solicitation calls on that line. My wife and I both have cell phones and everyone calls us on those.

At my Washington DC suburban house that happened about 15 years ago or so. High speed net to half a mile away. Took forever to get closer.
At my rural Mississippi house I about the same time they buried fiber down the road about the same time. But it was "dark fiber", they didn't hook it up to the net until about three years ago.
Now my county there started running fiber- parallel.
I'd been on DSL since 2010 from the phone company. "Best effort" we generally got at least 2 down and 0.7 up.
The phone company, got grants in 2019 - they are burying it. The power company got grants about the next year, they strung on the telephone/power poles.
Prices are about the same, the power company got to us first a few years ago.
Phone company is still coming.
The phone company brags about less problems with buried lines.
But so far it's no buried line.
Meanwhile the gas company got grants about 2018 to run natural gas. We put down about $800 deposit, in early 2019, and the foreman assured us it was about 3 weeks away.
Covid came along, the gas still has not got to us.
It got about half a mile from us.

 

[ultrarunner]

How about the CA high speed railroads? Theres a boondoggle for ya.
And I‘m a real proponent of railroads

Another black hole of cost over runs...

 

[two_bit_score]

but still my hat is off to Californians for their willingness to investment. the rest of the country would be a lot poorer without them. We wouldn't have computers and forums for one thing.

I think the evidence of your own words belies your denial.

 

[jyoutz]

At my Washington DC suburban house that happened about 15 years ago or so. High speed net to half a mile away. Took forever to get closer.
At my rural Mississippi house I about the same time they buried fiber down the road about the same time. But it was "dark fiber", they didn't hook it up to the net until about three years ago.
Now my county there started running fiber- parallel.
I'd been on DSL since 2010 from the phone company. "Best effort" we generally got at least 2 down and 0.7 up.
The phone company, got grants in 2019 - they are burying it. The power company got grants about the next year, they strung on the telephone/power poles.
Prices are about the same, the power company got to us first a few years ago.
Phone company is still coming.
The phone company brags about less problems with buried lines.
But so far it's no buried line.
Meanwhile the gas company got grants about 2018 to run natural gas. We put down about $800 deposit, in early 2019, and the foreman assured us it was about 3 weeks away.
Covid came along, the gas still has not got to us.
It got about half a mile from us.

Ah yes, one of the joys of rural living. Utilities. We are fortunate to have natural gas in my area to the property line, but I had to run the line 1500’ to my house. At my cost.

 

[jyoutz]

Another black hole of cost over runs...

Is there ANY construction project anywhere without cost overruns?

 

[Hay Dude]

Is there ANY construction project anywhere without cost overruns?

YES, of course there is. However, our federal gov__ment seldom, if ever has one.

 

[ultrarunner]

The National and Space Museum in D.C. widely reported to come in on time and in budget.

Friends that are contractors do.it all the time provided no changes...

Several have said they make their money on change orders...

My last clinic expansion came in on budget in 2019...

The secret is excellent planning and building without deviation securing materials under contract early...

Maybe TBN member California can add his experience with Caltrans?

 

[Hay Dude]

The CA “High Speed” railroad and the Jersey “Off Shore Wind” projects both failed because no significant numbers of people wanted them.
They were projects to satisfy the egos and promote the virtue of self aggrandized politicians.

 

[Torvy]

^this helps to explain why a lot of well meaning officials mess up.

To make a product or service, successful business people do a plan. If they need a loan, the bank will often expect a plan. The data needs to make sense and wastage and risk need to be identified. If you don't have research showing a need for the product/service at the price you need to be profitable, the project doesn't happen.

A similar problem with public 'services' is that they don't follow basic economic principles. When usage is down in a private business, they lower prices and cut costs. When public sector services are faced with similar problems, they raise prices in order to 'make up' the difference. Of course, higher prices drive people to find alternatives. Despite years of examples, it still happens. (USPS, toll roads, public transportation, Park fees...etc.) Then they are shocked that the program is losing money.

 

[2manyrocks]

Speaking of contruction cost overuns, Jefferson County Alabama, home of Birmingham, filed the then largest municipal bankruptcy case in 2011 with around $4.1 billion in debt mostly stemmed from corruption in building a new sewer system. Bunch of officials and contractors went to federal prison.

 

[jyoutz]

YES, of course there is. However, our federal gov__ment seldom, if ever has one.

I haven’t seen one when doing home improvement projects either.

 

[two_bit_score]

I haven’t seen one when doing home improvement projects either.

Of course you wouldn't.

 

[2manyrocks]

I used to serve on a local county board. The paid administrator had to get board approval for her budget. She presented her budget one year mentioning that our particular board could sue the county for more funding under state law even if the county commission wouldn't approve it.

Comparing her proposed budget to past years, there was some fluff in there that she had guessed at not even based on any comparative analysis. We told her to scale it back which might have been her plan all along.

Got tired of hand holding and didn't sign up for the next term, but she is still the paid administrator making a pretty nice living.

 

[Fixastuff]

I work on the rural internet project and one thing I really like about it is everything I've seen put in the ground is USA made. The conduit, the mule tape, the fiber, the 12x12s, vaults and bullet peds all MADE IN USA.

It surprised me in a good way.

 

[Hay Dude]

I haven’t seen one when doing home improvement projects either.

I never did a construction project for a customer in over 25 years of construction full time and now 10 more years part time, that came in over budget, as long as the customer did not change anything.
Once I gave my word on price, that was IT.

So you can put that in your BLM folder.

 

[two_bit_score]

It's my personal belief that the administrator got the job appointment based on her relationship to a state representative. The state rep is now out of office, but the paid administrator is still there probably until she accrues so much retirement pay that there is no longer any reason for her to keep the office.

That's what most of them do.

 

[rScotty]

I think the evidence of your own words belies your denial.

You took ny words out of context to make your point. That's just cheap.

Conversations can also be discussions for each participant to learn and add something,
they don't have to devolve into arguments to be won.

rScotty