Market Watch

[ultrarunner]

Im probably in a small minority as many of the younger 21 to 28 people I know are nurses or medical technicians...

The road to becoming a nurse, imaging tech, etc. takes a little more than planning and these mostly young ladies are pretty sharp and almost universally their families are very proud having seen for myself attending several graduations.

What percentage had a reasonable plan for their education? Is there anything to learn from that?

 

[rScotty]

Probably 10% or so. It probably varies. The school populace was 75% economically disadvantaged.

The ISD administration heavily pushed college. Too little focus on mastering the basics.

Ah, yes... I went to an ISD high school in Texas for 4 years. It was part of their Independent School District or "ISD" system. I didn't think that ISDs still existed. In fact, I am kind of surprised that they still do.... if they do.
rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

In my opinion, high schools should have both college preparatory and vocational education tracks, so students can choose and start preparing or at least gaining familiarity with different options.

I think they do. The one I went to did and still does.

 

[Torvy]

Independent School Districts are certainly not unique to Texas. 30 states exclusively use ISDs and another 16 have some. All it means is that the District is not a subset of another political entity below the state level. (Meaning they have independent taxing authority). Where you live now is 100% ISD. Texas has the most ISDs because of population, but does not have them exclusively. Only AK, HI, MD, NC (and DC) have no independent school districts.

Ultimately, like any local government, an ISD is the creature of the state. Houston ISD, for example, was taken over this year by TEA because the continually failed to meet state standards.

 

[Torvy]

I think they do. The one I went to did and still does.

They 'have' them, but many (in my experience, most) faculty and administrators steer kids away from vocational Ed and into college prep.

 

[Hay Dude]

At the time, my HS had vocational education but no college focused prep programs, other than typical advanced math and science. I took several vocational classes in woodworking, welding and automotive. Even though I did go to college, I have used those skills lifelong, and I worked in a woodworking shop part time during college. Young people should focus on a broad depth of skills and knowledge because everything is useful at one point in time.

Now you’re making some sense, but many of the Ivy league ”gods” and the new-age administrators of these secondary schools want everyone to go to college. This also feeds the problem of illegal immigrants being needed for vocational jobs.

We have all the people we need here to do all the jobs we have, but our “betters” destroy that by pushing youth who belong in the trades & military to college & the crushing debt that comes with it end up working at Starbucks. Then they “import” the skilled & unskilled workers from Mexico, Central & South America.

We don’t need 12,600 illegals crossing the border per day. We have plenty of working age & strength people right here.

 

[rScotty]

Independent School Districts are certainly not unique to Texas. 30 states exclusively use ISDs and another 16 have some. All it means is that the District is not a subset of another political entity below the state level. (Meaning they have independent taxing authority). Where you live now is 100% ISD. Texas has the most ISDs because of population, but does not have them exclusively. Only AK, HI, MD, NC (and DC) have no independent school districts.

Ultimately, like any local government, an ISD is the creature of the state. Houston ISD, for example, was taken over this year by TEA because the continually failed to meet state standards.

It was a long time ago with I was a student at a Independent School District high school in Texas. At that time there were both ISD and Public Schools there - the difference included the type of funding, administration - and of student demographics.

In Texas, Independent School Districts had the power to decide which students to accept or deny. The public schools could not discriminate, they had to accept anyone in their public school district.

Our family had moved there from a state where public schools were the norm. The ISD was a new experience. It was hard to get into the school. But once enrolled, the education was excellent. Absolutely top notch.

rScotty

 

[jyoutz]

Now you’re making some sense, but many of the Ivy league ”gods” and the new-age administrators of these secondary schools want everyone to go to college. This also feeds the problem of illegal immigrants being needed for vocational jobs.

We have all the people we need here to do all the jobs we have, but our “betters” destroy that by pushing youth who belong in the trades & military to college & the crushing debt that comes with it end up working at Starbucks. Then they “import” the skilled & unskilled workers from Mexico, Central & South America.

We don’t need 12,600 illegals crossing the border per day. We have plenty of working age & strength people right here.

I agree with vocational education and encouraging young people to pursue the jobs most suited. But the illegals (that we need to figure out a workable visa program for) are doing jobs that nobody aspires to and few citizens will do: in my area that’s picking chile, onion, grapes, melons, doing landscaping labor, ect…

 

[Torvy]

It was a long time ago with I was a student at a Independent School District high school in Texas. At that time there were both ISD and Public Schools there - the difference included the type of funding, administration - and of student demographics.

In Texas, Independent School Districts had the power to decide which students to accept or deny. The public schools could not discriminate, they had to accept anyone in their public school district.

Our family had moved there from a state where public schools were the norm. The ISD was a new experience. It was hard to get into the school. But once enrolled, the education was excellent. Absolutely top notch.

rScotty

I think you are confusing an ISD with Charter or Magnet schools. Those schools are all public schools, but have a specific charter to provide a unique experience. Typically, Magnates (think school for the arts) only exist in large districts. Most Charter schools in Texas are open enrollment and overlap with ISD schools, but are not part of the ISD. The Charter is from the state. ISD is literally a political subdivision and 100% public. By law an ISD school cannot deny enrollment if you live in the district (unless you got expelled and even then there are appeals).

Private schools sometimes are large enough to have a system. Catholic schools, for instance, are most often part of the local Diocese and subject to oversight by the Diocesan superintendent and/or board. While they are "independent", they are not considered school districts, nor referred to as an ISD. Since they are private, they are not subject to most state laws on education.

 

[2manyrocks]

One of my brothers in law is smart, but given the choice between a beating and having to sit in a classroom, he'd ask you how bad the beating was going to be.

 

[rScotty]

I think you are confusing an ISD with Charter or Magnet schools. Those schools are all public schools, but have a specific charter to provide a unique experience. Typically, Magnates (think school for the arts) only exist in large districts. Most Charter schools in Texas are open enrollment and overlap with ISD schools, but are not part of the ISD. The Charter is from the state. ISD is literally a political subdivision and 100% public. By law an ISD school cannot deny enrollment if you live in the district (unless you got expelled and even then there are appeals).

Private schools sometimes are large enough to have a system. Catholic schools, for instance, are most often part of the local Diocese and subject to oversight by the Diocesan superintendent and/or board. While they are "independent", they are not considered school districts, nor referred to as an ISD. Since they are private, they are not subject to most state laws on education.

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like things are different today.
No, I'm not confused about the Texas ISDs at the time. I remember the enrollment process too well - as well as the problems it caused when we bumped up against it.

But from what you say - and I am sure you know more about it than I do - the system is much changed from what it was back in the 1950s and 60s. Back then, the ISD schools weren't concerned with academic subjects or church schools, they were serving a different purpose.

The Colorado schools today do not have the excellent academic programs that Texas had back in the pre-Johnson era. But then we didn't have the inequities to deal with either.
rScotty

 

[milkman636]

We used to have ISD (Intermediate School Districts) in Michigan. They are now called RESA (Regional Education Services Association). It’s a county level program that provides trade school and occupational training for all the member school districts in the county. My 11th grade daughter attends one for early childhood as part of her school day, and will earn a free associate degree out of the program. One of my 12th grade son’s best friends is in the electrical program there getting a start to be an electrician. They attend high school for 2 classes in the morning and then drive the 12 miles to the RESA center for the remainder of the school day. They also get paired up for an internship.

 

[Torvy]

We used to have ISD (Intermediate School Districts) in Michigan. They are now called RESA (Regional Education Services Association). It’s a county level program that provides trade school and occupational training for all the member school districts in the county. My 11th grade daughter attends one for early childhood as part of her school day, and will earn a free associate degree out of the program. One of my 12th grade son’s best friends is in the electrical program there getting a start to be an electrician. They attend high school for 2 classes in the morning and then drive the 12 miles to the RESA center for the remainder of the school day. They also get paired up for an internship.

Big city ISD's started putting something similar in place in the DFW area maybe 10-15 years ago. As a teacher, they way they do it is a waste of time. Students go between multiple campuses, sometimes twice a day. I had a student earn his EMT certification during his senior year. I think it would be better if they just had the core subjects at the 'vo-tech' campuses, too. That way students aren't driving back and forth and disrupting class by arriving late, etc.

 

[Williy]

I wonder how many kids that are fair in sports get passing grades
if they can even read or do any math???

willy

 

[Torvy]

I wonder how many kids that are fair in sports get passing grades
if they can even read or do any math???

willy

Partly depends on the coach and the teachers. I've seen teachers treat athletes unfairly because the teacher has issues with athletes when the teacher was in HS. On the other hand, I had an athlete that didn't give any effort in class and the coaches fully supported the failing grade, even though he was a starter.

Our Athletic Director was very big on Education. His own kids include a National Merit Scholar and a USAFA cadet. Good kids, too. Involved in athletics, choir and church all while being in top 3 graduates. Coach was always very supportive of teachers. Some of the 'teaching' done by a few of his assistant coaches was criminally based, though.

 

[edgarrian]

Partly depends on the coach and the teachers. I've seen teachers treat athletes unfairly because the teacher has issues with athletes when the teacher was in HS. On the other hand, I had an athlete that didn't give any effort in class and the coaches fully supported the failing grade, even though he was a starter.

Our Athletic Director was very big on Education. His own kids include a National Merit Scholar and a USAFA cadet. Good kids, too. Involved in athletics, choir and church all while being in top 3 graduates. Coach was always very supportive of teachers. Some of the 'teaching' done by a few of his assistant coaches was criminally based, though.

My wife is a teacher at Carmel High school here in Indiana. its a well known school in football and one of the largest schools in the state. She has never been prompted to pass a kid b/c of football and she teaches HS math. I dont think this is as big of an issue as some seem to think it is. No doubt there is student athletes that get unfair treatment.

When I played football. I made the all county team on defense. My head coach taught drafting class that i took. I literally did nothing but run errands and watch game tape and received a B in the class. Now my defensive coach taught economics class and was not a teacher that gave out grades.

I think at the college level is where the water gets murky. Especially if you are top talent

 

[Torvy]

My HS receivers coach taught Geometry. I did not do well (Bs and Cs) in the class despite being a starter as a 10th grader. Soured me on math, too. My former head coach was new but great (now the winningest coach in state history), the WR coach was one of those guys who coached to try to extend his own glory days.

 

[Hay Dude]

Partly depends on the coach and the teachers. I've seen teachers treat athletes unfairly because the teacher has issues with athletes when the teacher was in HS. On the other hand, I had an athlete that didn't give any effort in class and the coaches fully supported the failing grade, even though he was a starter.

Our Athletic Director was very big on Education. His own kids include a National Merit Scholar and a USAFA cadet. Good kids, too. Involved in athletics, choir and church all while being in top 3 graduates. Coach was always very supportive of teachers. Some of the 'teaching' done by a few of his assistant coaches was criminally based, though.

My wife is a teacher at Carmel High school here in Indiana. its a well known school in football and one of the largest schools in the state. She has never been prompted to pass a kid b/c of football and she teaches HS math. I dont think this is as big of an issue as some seem to think it is. No doubt there is student athletes that get unfair treatment.

When I played football. I made the all county team on defense. My head coach taught drafting class that i took. I literally did nothing but run errands and watch game tape and received a B in the class. Now my defensive coach taught economics class and was not a teacher that gave out grades.

I think at the college level is where the water gets murky. Especially if you are top talent

My HS coaches that were teachers looked the other way to the extent that they could when we got into trouble. My son was a college athlete and is now a HS teacher and HS coach. He is the only one who is a teacher on the team. Things have changed- many coaches are not teachers (I wasnt one either). He has told me administration is having disciple problems with teams that are coached purely by non-teachers.

 

[MoKelly]

My experience is with college tennis players — primarily DII and DIII.

The vast majority are outstanding young people who are intelligent, hard working and polite. In my opinion, they are going far in life. I’d hire them in a heartbeat.

None will make tennis their chosen profession. But being able to be a college athlete enhances their college life and makes them more well rounded.

It’s a very good thing.

 

[Hay Dude]

Playing at the D-1 level means about 30 hours per week devoted to your sport (there’s a maximum allowed by the NCAA). Think of having a 15 credit course load AND that every week during the season. In the off season, the max number of hours is reduced, but still pretty significant.
Both my kids did it and it does make for a well rounded, organized employee.