Market Watch

[jyoutz]

They can’t be considered illegals (as much as I hate to bust your bubble) if there was no law barring them from entering. Your ancestors were no more illegal in 1914 than mine were when they came from England, Ireland and France before the American Revolution.

Sorry but seems yours were just like mine. Common legal immigrants. So you should stop the pretense of them being “illegal immigrants” as you evidently think there is some valor attached to entering the country “illegally”.

It was tongue in cheek in case you didn’t catch it. What they did in 1914 wasn’t illegal at the time, but the same thing is now illegal.

 

[Torvy]

In the 1970s, there was an orderly process called the Bracero program that farms used and it was successful and efficient.

The Bracero program ended in 1964 (started in 1942 because the US needed workers since men were being drafted for WW2).

The primary drivers behind ending the program were 1) union objections. 2) workers were illegally staying after their contracts ended.

That being said, if you could solve the problems with the system, a version could work. All of the in-processing was done in Mexico by US officials, but working in concert with Mexican officials.

Modern day problem would also be the Cartels. They don't want a safe, legal system because then BP can focus more on security and drug trafficking threats.

 

[drumminj]

This is not a new problem. Until the government goes after the employers and they start losing their businesses, plus going to jail for hiring illegal workers, nothing will change. For years Pappa's was running an extensive network to transport their illegal workers back and forth across the border. They had elaborate setups in the restaurants for employees to be notified in time to get into purpose built concealed places to hide when INS raids took place. In 1997, instead of prosecuting the principal owners and sending them to prison, the INS agreed to settle for a $1.75 million dollar fine. It was a drop in the bucket for the company's financial statement. I was friends at the time with many of the agents that worked the case. They were upset that their hard work went down the drain, just so the administration could make headlines about the largest fine ever in INS history.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-aliens/751937f7-20fa-4536-b49c-91ee8b69f0ef/

We may disagree on what the fix is here. I do agree that laws should be enforced, but in this case I think the gov't has overstepped with regulations. Some jobs simply aren't worth $15/hr (or whatever min wage is in your area).

 

[jyoutz]

The Bracero program ended in 1964 (started in 1942 because the US needed workers since men were being drafted for WW2).

The primary drivers behind ending the program were 1) union objections. 2) workers were illegally staying after their contracts ended.

That being said, if you could solve the problems with the system, a version could work. All of the in-processing was done in Mexico by US officials, but working in concert with Mexican officials.

Modern day problem would also be the Cartels. They don't want a safe, legal system because then BP can focus more on security and drug trafficking threats.

I know the farms were talking about hiring workers under the Bracero program in the late 1970s when I worked summers. But they could have just been referring to green card workers with the old program name? Anyway, we need a new program similar to that one. There are too many needs for this.

 

[jyoutz]

We may disagree on what the fix is here. I do agree that laws should be enforced, but in this case I think the gov't has overstepped with regulations. Some jobs simply aren't worth $15/hr (or whatever min wage is in your area).

I’m not following your logic. If we can’t hire citizens at $15/hour to do certain jobs, how would a lower wage help with recruitment?

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

62% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, as holiday spending, credit card debt rise

As the holiday season kicks into high gear, 62% of adults say they are living paycheck to paycheck, according to a recent report.

www.cnbc.com

 

[goeduck]

New Campaign Phrase
"It's the Inflation, Stupid"

 

[jyoutz]

62% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, as holiday spending, credit card debt rise

As the holiday season kicks into high gear, 62% of adults say they are living paycheck to paycheck, according to a recent report.

www.cnbc.com

That is no surprise. I don’t know how young families can save anything after housing costs, medical insurance, etc… I know we lived paycheck to paycheck until I was in my early 40s before we could do any serious saving. Rental prices today exceed most mortgage payments on a monthly basis. But with the cost of housing it’s difficult for young people to save for a down payment to buy a house.

 

[drumminj]

I’m not following your logic. If we can’t hire citizens at $15/hour to do certain jobs, how would a lower wage help with recruitment?

I'd challenge the presumption that we can't hire citizens at $15/hr to do the jobs I'm thinking of.

I do agree that there are jobs that aren't getting filled even at today's higher wages, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm referencing is the kind of jobs I (we?) had as kids - de-tassling corn, delivering newspapers, working at fast food joints or as a bus boy at a locally-owned restaurant. Now, these jobs may pay $15/hr, but the expectations/requirements are much higher as each position costs the business much more.

On un-filled jobs, my personal belief aligns with other comments in this thread - we're paying people too much to not work that the incentive just isn't there. If it was starve vs work a $15/hr job, those jobs would be getting filled.

 

[Hay Dude]

I blame ”academia” and the little college snots who put kids down for learning to weld, trades, fix broken equipment, join the military, or learn to farm.

These little Ivy league twerps made many young people feel like excrement about pursuing those ways of making a living. Calling them hicks, rednecks or losers.

Man I hate those Ivy league and snotty colleges.

Ruined the country’s social fabric. And now they’re president is being exposed as a fraud and plagiarist

 

[jyoutz]

I'd challenge the presumption that we can't hire citizens at $15/hr to do the jobs I'm thinking of.

I do agree that there are jobs that aren't getting filled even at today's higher wages, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm referencing is the kind of jobs I (we?) had as kids - de-tassling corn, delivering newspapers, working at fast food joints or as a bus boy at a locally-owned restaurant. Now, these jobs may pay $15/hr, but the expectations/requirements are much higher as each position costs the business much more.

On un-filled jobs, my personal believe aligns with other comments in this thread - we're paying people too much to not work that the incentive just isn't there. If it was starve vs work a $15/hr job, those jobs would be getting filled.

I find it interesting that those jobs you mention that many of us did in high school are now largely held by adults.

 

[jyoutz]

I blame ”academia” and the little college snots who put kids down for learning to weld, trades, fix broken equipment, join the military, or learn to farm.

These little Ivy league twerps made many young people feel like excrement about pursuing those ways of making a living. Calling them hicks, rednecks or losers.

Man I hate those Ivy league and snotty colleges.

Ruined the country’s social fabric.

Most skilled trades are higher paying than many entry level fields that require college degrees. I still see a lot of young guys doing plumbing, hvac, welding, and carpentry. Usually when we have plumbing or hvac work done it’s always a pair that show up: an older guy and young apprentice.

 

[Hay Dude]

Most skilled trades are higher paying than many entry level fields that require college degrees. I still see a lot of young guys doing plumbing, hvac, welding, and carpentry. Usually when we have plumbing or hvac work done it’s always a pair that show up: an older guy and young apprentice.

I didn’t say young people weren’t doing those jobs, I said I’m tired of the ridicule they have to take from some of the snotty college punks.
Hell, half the Hollywood garbage we gotta pay $20 to see just rips Americans who work with their hands.

 

[jyoutz]

Yeah, tell me high school and college kids don’t mock & ridicule kids who want to work right out of high school.
Hell, half the Hollywood garbage we gotta pay $20 to see just rips Americans who work with their hands.

IDK. My boys have lots of old HS friends they still keep in touch with. Some went to college, and some are doing skilled trades. And many in trades are making more than my sons. Of course I don’t know about other areas of the country. They just went to state universities, not snotty Ivy League schools, but then so does the majority of college students. Ivy League snots also make fun of state university students.

 

[drumminj]

I find it interesting that those jobs you mention that many of us did in high school are now largely held by adults.

I agree it's interesting. I don't claim to know why that is.

Do kids still work? Can the adults not find other jobs? Do they not have the skills for other jobs, such that the issue is a less-capable adult workforce these days? (arguably kids did these jobs because they were low-skilled and don't need/want a full-time job)

 

[rScotty]

Yeah, tell me high school and college kids don’t mock & ridicule kids who want to work right out of high school.
Hell, half the Hollywood garbage we gotta pay $20 to see just rips Americans who work with their hands.

It's an old problem. In Texas high schools the complaint was that the teachers were all college educated and they encouraged the HS students to go to college instead of learning a trade useful to them.

The hot new trade taught by trade schools was.... wait for it..... Typewriter Repair!

That was about the middle of the last century. Clearly Prehistoric. Not much is changed.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

SNIP

Man I hate those Ivy league and snotty colleges.

Ruined the country’s social fabric.

Just so you have the comparison right, the HS graduation rate where I was from was less than 20% of the adults.
Most adults felt the same way about HS snots as you do about college kids. And they were just as arrogant about showing it.
rScotty

 

[jyoutz]

I agree it's interesting. I don't claim to know why that is.

Do kids still work? Can the adults not find other jobs? Do they not have the skills for other jobs, such that the issue is a less-capable adult workforce these days? (arguably kids did these jobs because they were low-skilled and don't need/want a full-time job)

I know that my boys when they were in HS 10 years ago had full time jobs in the summer, but during the school year only working on Saturdays at a local feed store and lumberyard. A lot of after school things like sports kinda made it hard for them to work on school days.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I agree it's interesting. I don't claim to know why that is.

Do kids still work? Can the adults not find other jobs? Do they not have the skills for other jobs, such that the issue is a less-capable adult workforce these days? (arguably kids did these jobs because they were low-skilled and don't need/want a full-time job)

My kids both work(ed) the legal max while in school. My son is 14, in high school, taking college classes and working 18 hours per week. No free lunches here.

 

[rScotty]

I know that my boys when they were in HS 10 years ago had full time jobs in the summer, but during the school year only working on Saturdays at a local feed store and lumberyard. A lot of after school things like sports kinda made it hard for them to work on school days.

Good for them. Some is OK, but looking back on it now, playing sports taught me more useful things than being cheap labor on neighbors farms or at the service station.