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Manual vs Hydro Transmissions
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Soundguy
Old Timer
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- Mar 11, 2002
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- 52,424
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- Central florida
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Those prices are absolutely 'ripoff' horendous.. almost usery.
Around here, you can get a reman 8spd for the big thousand series for a grand.. plus about another 750 or so for labor for the swap. If you go for a salvage 8spd.. it drops to 750 or so...
Heck.. you can almost buy a complete SOS trans for what that guy is asking... I don't mind people making a buck.. but when they charge 2x to 3x the legit going price for some items.. well.. darn... that just serves to drive prices up everywhere...
I can honestly say.. those are the most expensive trans prices i have -ever- seen for a ford... You could buy each gear singally, and the case and seals and make it yourself for less than he charges for the smallest assembly..
Soundguy
Around here, you can get a reman 8spd for the big thousand series for a grand.. plus about another 750 or so for labor for the swap. If you go for a salvage 8spd.. it drops to 750 or so...
Heck.. you can almost buy a complete SOS trans for what that guy is asking... I don't mind people making a buck.. but when they charge 2x to 3x the legit going price for some items.. well.. darn... that just serves to drive prices up everywhere...
I can honestly say.. those are the most expensive trans prices i have -ever- seen for a ford... You could buy each gear singally, and the case and seals and make it yourself for less than he charges for the smallest assembly..
Soundguy
john_bud said:
Soundguy said:
Want to see usury pricing? This is a quote I got for the parts to fix the 4speed. It is only for about 1/2 of the hard parts and doesn't include the usual rebuild stuff like bearings, gaskets and seals.
{paste on}
-----------John, B9NN7A381B gear, new is $181.03. 8n7100 gear, used is $89.99, 9n7134 retainer, used is $29.99, NDA7111C countershaft, new is $1319.71---ouch. The NDA7141 B gear bushing assy is $423.83 new. Shipping to be added to quote price. Thanks for part numbers. Gary Brown
Price Quote: $2,044.55
To Purchase this item, please go to Ford Tractor Parts 8N Ford Tractors, Ford Tractors Ford Parts and click on the Buy a Part page link. Then type in your e-mail address and this Reference No
{paste off}
Next time I break something, can I call you up for parts help? (seriously)
jb
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Wow.. I've seen an entire 4spd with casting for the price of just that countershaft.
Sometimes ya have to hunt a little bit.. but DARN.. that guy is trying to break it off if you get my menaing..
Soundguy
Sometimes ya have to hunt a little bit.. but DARN.. that guy is trying to break it off if you get my menaing..
Soundguy
Soundguy
Old Timer
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 52,424
- Location
- Central florida
- Tractor
- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
john_bud said:
Forgot to add.. next time you are looking for ford parts, email me. The people I deal with seem to have more availability with the 1939-1964 parts.. but can get the 1965-1975 parts sometimes.
No guarantees that I'll find them.. but i do guarantee i will look, and make a few calls and emails in order to help.
Soundguy
Soundguy said:
Thanks ~!
It's a 1963 HD Industrial Diesel with 4 speed and sherman combo. Pretty much just a 801, but some thicker parts for the front end and an added frame.
I really really don't want to do any more repairs, but should worse come to worse....
jb
eaglemrpaul
New member
Sorry for the late post on this. I would like to add a few more thoughts. Here in southeast Wisconsin a majority of people are so many generations off the farm that they may have heard of a clutch but have never seen one. That lack of knowledge isn't good or bad, it's reality. With a clutch, no matter how loud you yell, the tractor won't stop until you run out of fuel, hit something hard, or push the clutch in. With a clutch tractor, car, truck, etc. you need a more experienced operator. If magically every automobile on the road tomorrow has a clutch transmission, I won't be going out on the road tomorrow or for several days. The biggest advantage of owning a clutch tractor around here in that most people won't be able to barrow it.
JerryG
Super Member
Z-Michigan said:
Massey Ferguson has a PowerShuttle with a wet clutch in tractors as small as 33 engine hp (MF1433 and MF1533. Massey also has a transmission they call a DynaQPS that is PowerShift and PowerShift combined starting at 47 engine hp (MF1547).
MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
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- 66,618
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
eaglemrpaul said:
BTDT
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2006
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- 2,209
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- North Texas
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- IH M Farmall-propane powered, H Farmall (father-in-laws), Ford 1300 diesel
I vote for manual. Our Ford 1300 had a rebuild (engine) about 3 years ago. We did the clutch then, for couple hundred dollars or less. Engine was less than a thousand. Still going strong otherwise, tractor is an 83 model.
Greenhouseray
Member
Hi All
Life with a tractor used to be a lot simpler.
After all, it was not too long ago we did not have Hydro Tranny's. Our dads and grandads never saw them. Thats only, if you are as old as I am.
We had several tractors on the farm at the time. Dad and Gramps were still working the family farm back in 1973. I was helping out on weekends and when something broke.. We had a 1941 9N, a Fordson Major, and a couple of IH row croppers. In regard to wearing a clutch out, I don't recall ever replacing one on any of our tractors. I had the 9N until two years ago. It had the original clutch in it when I sadly parted with it. (See attached pictures of the Mrs. & I saying Goodbye on the sad day) I am sorry now that I let her go. The offer was too good to pass up at the time.
Back in 1987, I had resleeved the engine and put adjustable valve lifters and new pistons & rings in her, replaced the PTO shaft and bearings, the splines were worn off the business end of the shaft, replaced the steering sectors and pinion, replaced the ignition wires and points and gave her a new coat of paint. When I had her torn down I looked at the clutch it still had life in it so I put her back together. All of the parts were available and tractors were designed to be worked on.
I guess, life of a clutch depends how you work a clutch and how much HP you got in front of it. The 9N had an eleven inch clutch and something like only 23 Hp. The tractors of today are not made to last like then.. Ford and Ferguson made that baby to last. And last they did. Buying a tractor decision was not hard, like Henry used to say about the old "T" Give them any color they want as long as it is black.
Think I will try to get her back if I ever enlarge the barn.
Thanks for the memorys.
Ray
Life with a tractor used to be a lot simpler.
After all, it was not too long ago we did not have Hydro Tranny's. Our dads and grandads never saw them. Thats only, if you are as old as I am.
We had several tractors on the farm at the time. Dad and Gramps were still working the family farm back in 1973. I was helping out on weekends and when something broke.. We had a 1941 9N, a Fordson Major, and a couple of IH row croppers. In regard to wearing a clutch out, I don't recall ever replacing one on any of our tractors. I had the 9N until two years ago. It had the original clutch in it when I sadly parted with it. (See attached pictures of the Mrs. & I saying Goodbye on the sad day) I am sorry now that I let her go. The offer was too good to pass up at the time.
Back in 1987, I had resleeved the engine and put adjustable valve lifters and new pistons & rings in her, replaced the PTO shaft and bearings, the splines were worn off the business end of the shaft, replaced the steering sectors and pinion, replaced the ignition wires and points and gave her a new coat of paint. When I had her torn down I looked at the clutch it still had life in it so I put her back together. All of the parts were available and tractors were designed to be worked on.
I guess, life of a clutch depends how you work a clutch and how much HP you got in front of it. The 9N had an eleven inch clutch and something like only 23 Hp. The tractors of today are not made to last like then.. Ford and Ferguson made that baby to last. And last they did. Buying a tractor decision was not hard, like Henry used to say about the old "T" Give them any color they want as long as it is black.
Think I will try to get her back if I ever enlarge the barn.
Thanks for the memorys.
Ray
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patrick_g
Elite Member
About the loss of power due to having an HST...
I have written on this before but feel inclined to repeat myself. Maybe it is just Kubota's SUPERIOR engineering...
B-U-T... My tractor is rated for 39.5 HP at the PTO. Now, if I had bought the more efficient GEARED tranny on the same model tractor I would have had 40 HP at the PTO. OOOOOOH I'm being robbed of 1/2 of a HP!!!
I don't think that short of a sensitive dyno test you could tell the difference. I certainly don't think an operator is going to perceive 1 1/4 % loss of power. If other brands of tractors lose a significantly greater percentage of their power in the hydraulics then that is a statement on their design.
I admit that I do not know the power loss of other makes of HST but truly doubt that any NAME BRANDS are particularly inferior to Kubota in power transmission.
MYTH BUSTED - - - HST is not a big loss of power
As to reliability... Maybe I'm just luckier than most (nothing else tends to support that hypothesis) but I have mistreated my Kubota with a vengence (just thrash around on it like a madman) and the HST has NEVER required anything but filters and fluids.
About the idea that it doesn't make a difference in manuvering, especially tight manuvering... I can heel and toe with the best of them and double clutch too. I can drive a non synchro tranny pretty grind free B-U-T... I have no illusions about any manual tranny tractor, even a shuttle shift or automatic clutch model being as easy to use in close in manuvering. I'm not disagreeing with any previous poster's comments about their manual shifting abilities and speeds. I do claim that the HST is easier under all manuvering conditions and will let virtually ANYONE perforn at or above the level of the best manual tranny user with minimal training and a lot less actual work.
If you do not anticipate tractor use with a FEL or any mowing with obstacles and mostly are into row cropping or dragging implements through the dirt for hours on end wiith very few reversals in direction, then by all means the standard gear tranny is the best fit. Most folks would agree that it would outlive the HST in that service and be cheaper to maintain.
So what if you save a few bucks in purchase price and another few bucks in lifetime maint costs if you give up a lot of convenience and capability. You can regret at your leisure what you decided in haste. You will have hundreds if not thousands of hours of seat time over the expected life time of your tractor to wish you'd opted for a better fit, WHATEVER THAT IS if you don't choose what you want/need instead of what you can get by with.
Pat
I have written on this before but feel inclined to repeat myself. Maybe it is just Kubota's SUPERIOR engineering...
B-U-T... My tractor is rated for 39.5 HP at the PTO. Now, if I had bought the more efficient GEARED tranny on the same model tractor I would have had 40 HP at the PTO. OOOOOOH I'm being robbed of 1/2 of a HP!!!
I don't think that short of a sensitive dyno test you could tell the difference. I certainly don't think an operator is going to perceive 1 1/4 % loss of power. If other brands of tractors lose a significantly greater percentage of their power in the hydraulics then that is a statement on their design.
I admit that I do not know the power loss of other makes of HST but truly doubt that any NAME BRANDS are particularly inferior to Kubota in power transmission.
MYTH BUSTED - - - HST is not a big loss of power
As to reliability... Maybe I'm just luckier than most (nothing else tends to support that hypothesis) but I have mistreated my Kubota with a vengence (just thrash around on it like a madman) and the HST has NEVER required anything but filters and fluids.
About the idea that it doesn't make a difference in manuvering, especially tight manuvering... I can heel and toe with the best of them and double clutch too. I can drive a non synchro tranny pretty grind free B-U-T... I have no illusions about any manual tranny tractor, even a shuttle shift or automatic clutch model being as easy to use in close in manuvering. I'm not disagreeing with any previous poster's comments about their manual shifting abilities and speeds. I do claim that the HST is easier under all manuvering conditions and will let virtually ANYONE perforn at or above the level of the best manual tranny user with minimal training and a lot less actual work.
If you do not anticipate tractor use with a FEL or any mowing with obstacles and mostly are into row cropping or dragging implements through the dirt for hours on end wiith very few reversals in direction, then by all means the standard gear tranny is the best fit. Most folks would agree that it would outlive the HST in that service and be cheaper to maintain.
So what if you save a few bucks in purchase price and another few bucks in lifetime maint costs if you give up a lot of convenience and capability. You can regret at your leisure what you decided in haste. You will have hundreds if not thousands of hours of seat time over the expected life time of your tractor to wish you'd opted for a better fit, WHATEVER THAT IS if you don't choose what you want/need instead of what you can get by with.
Pat
_RaT_
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2000
- Messages
- 5,855
- Location
- Peoples Republic of Northern CA.
- Tractor
- Kioti 3510-SE HST
patrick_g said:
Hi Pat, where have you been? How have you been?
Check out tractor data or nh web sites for specs on nh 45 gear vs hst .The hydro is what i had in the 40d series it had alot more dirt shoving power than the old 3ooo ford and would out work a 2wd 555b backhoe on hills .Loss of power was not the problem i needed more hp at the pto so i traded up to a tc55 the 45 should have plenty .The good thing about the 45d hydo you can add a mid mount pto if you want a belly mower or a front mounted snow blower .There better on hills and next to foundations for more precise work the gear transmission would be a better choice for more field work in my opinion although it has a shuttle and the dealer said it would be better for loader work.You will loose about two or three hp for the hydro.I hope this helped .
Well, I for one am on my 2nd HST and absolutely love it. The 1st didn't fail - just traded up. Big fun with lots of seat-time this weekend -I had 5 yds of stone delivered and with the ease of the rocker pedal on my HST Kubota I was able to get it all moved and smoothed in less than an hour. Also many post holes dug - not a big job, but you certainly couldn't tell any power lost!
-Brian
-Brian
swedish-fish
Bronze Member
I have no complaints with my small geared tractor, but I did find a situation where HST would be nice that I don't think has been mentioned. While snowblowing in reverse into a packed pile I could have used an even slower ground speed to keep my RPMs up. Keep in mind intermittantly engaging the clutch also intermittantly stops the pto. My workaround was to take smaller bites so as not to strain the engine. Of course a tractor with more than 15HP would help too.
patrick_g
Elite Member
_RaT_ said:
RaT, Doin' fine thanks. Raisin' a dozen black calves, mostly Angus (maybe a touch of Limousin or ???.) Pidling on the house projects. Surviving the ice storm. Gettin' my but kicked trying to download digital video into computer.
Still working on my interior storm shutters. (Sore back, darn things are HEAVY.)
Hope all is going well with yoiu this new year of 2007.
PAT
swedish-fish said:
Really? I read a discussion a while ago about 'live PTO' which keeps running with the clutch in. Or is it 1/2-way in? I have an HST with 'live PTO' and the PTO keeps running if I put the clutch in. I don't do that much, but I did try it after reading about live PTO.
-Brian
DK35vince
Super Member
n8wrl said:
On gear transmissions A "non-live" PTO will shut off when the clutch is pushed in.
A "live" PTO with a 2 stage clutch will continue to run when the clutch is pushed half way in, and will shut off when the clutch is pushed all the way in.
An "independant" PTO usually is turned on by a switch on the dash, and will continue turn run reguardless if the clutch is in or out, and will run until the switch is turned off..
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