M59 & 2007-2014 Muffler Maintenance

[rScotty]

I wonder how many Kubota Tier 3/interim 4 owners have done the 250 hr. maintenance on their mufflers? I haven't, but know I should try to stay up to date with the technical maintenance stuff that I don't understand.

Basically the operator's manual says to first try method "A" which is unscrew the muffler drain plug and tap (tap?) on the muffler with a stick until crud comes out. If that doesn't work, do method "B" - which is pull the whole muffler off and beat some more. Why? What happens? How do I know how much is enough?

Do all the Kubotas built in the Interim Tier IV era 2007-2014 need that mainenance?

rScotty

 

[Smokeydog]

Asked in a similar post about spark arrester maintenance 7-20.
From others experiences didn’t try to attempt the maintenance on the M59.

 

[Smokeydog]

The 2016 B26 came with short tail pipe screen spark arrestor. option, $70. Cleaned the screen several times 100-200hours always partial blockage. “Felt” a little increase in power after cleaning. Operated a while without the tail pipe. Noticed more black inside the loader arm lower side exhaust, so cut the screen out just use the extended tail pipe piece. Low fire hazard around here.

Hopefully the spark arrestor. screen in the M59 inside the muffler has enough heat to be self cleaning. Asked the service manager once about this and didn’t know what I was talking about. Be interesting if anyone has ever got much out of cleaning inside muffler spark arrestor. Only see black blue smoke a little when starting cold. Operate mostly with auto-throttle.

 

[loggin]

I wonder how many Kubota Tier 3/interim 4 owners have done the 250 hr. maintenance on their mufflers? I haven't, but know I should try to stay up to date with the technical maintenance stuff that I don't understand.

Basically the operator's manual says to first try method "A" which is unscrew the muffler drain plug and tap (tap?) on the muffler with a stick until crud comes out. If that doesn't work, do method "B" - which is pull the whole muffler off and beat some more. Why? What happens? How do I know how much is enough?

Do all the Kubotas built in the Interim Tier IV era 2007-2014 need that mainenance?

rScotty

Hello rScotty. I have a 2012 MX4700 and this is the first time I've heard of a muffler maintenance schedule. From what I can tell from pictures of the M59 your exhaust pipe does not go up and likely exhausts downwards somehow. Same as mine. I also do not recall seeing a "muffler drain plug". I believe we have the same V2403 engine. MX4700 non turbo and MX5100 turbo. I would be curious to see how our muffler systems differ. I will try to take a photo later and post it. Would you mind doing the same?

 

[rScotty]

Hello rScotty. I have a 2012 MX4700 and this is the first time I've heard of a muffler maintenance schedule. From what I can tell from pictures of the M59 your exhaust pipe does not go up and likely exhausts downwards somehow. Same as mine. I also do not recall seeing a "muffler drain plug". I believe we have the same V2403 engine. MX4700 non turbo and MX5100 turbo. I would be curious to see how our muffler systems differ. I will try to take a photo later and post it. Would you mind doing the same?

No problem I'll do it next time I'm out there. Do you have an operator's manual? If so, look under "PERIODIC SERVICE OF THE TRACTOR". In my manual, instructions for cleaning the muffler is the only entry under "EVERY 250 HOURS".

 

[rScotty]

Hello rScotty. I have a 2012 MX4700 and this is the first time I've heard of a muffler maintenance schedule. From what I can tell from pictures of the M59 your exhaust pipe does not go up and likely exhausts downwards somehow. Same as mine. I also do not recall seeing a "muffler drain plug". I believe we have the same V2403 engine. MX4700 non turbo and MX5100 turbo. I would be curious to see how our muffler systems differ. I will try to take a photo later and post it. Would you mind doing the same?

Here are the photos. The plug is clearly visible.
It's a "FleetGuard"
Looking at the exploded parts diagrams on Messick's site, it looks like our mufflers are the same muffler can but with different bend to the pipes in and out because of the turbo.
Kubota's price is in the 500 dollar range, which is enough to dissuade me from buying one just to cut up for curiosity. Good place for a borescope though.
My bet is it a simple longitudinal screen within a can....Might be able to track it down by the FleetGuard model number stamped on the muffler.
rScotty

 

[loggin]

Here are the photos. The plug is clearly visible.
It's a "FleetGuard"
Looking at the exploded parts diagrams on Messick's site, it looks like our mufflers are the same muffler can but with different bend to the pipes in and out because of the turbo.
Kubota's price is in the 500 dollar range, which is enough to dissuade me from buying one just to cut up for curiosity. Good place for a borescope though.
My bet is it a simple longitudinal screen within a can....Might be able to track it down by the FleetGuard model number stamped on the muffler.
rScotty
View attachment 724126View attachment 724127

Oh, interesting. My muffler looks a little different. Here are my pics. Sorry not as good as yours. Front end loader and hood in the way.

 

[loggin]

Thanks for posting those pics!! Also checked the workshop manual and it did not mention servicing the muffler. I forgot to see if there was anything in the owners manual. I will try to remember tomorrow. If you wind up doing this service could you please let me know how that went? Wondering how much crud would come out.

 

[Captain Dirty]

See the thread Smokeydog started on July 1, 2020 (Kubota > KubotaOwning/Operating > Spark arrester cleaning). My experience is with the M59's little brother, an L45, but much similar.

 

[rScotty]

Thanks for posting those pics!! Also checked the workshop manual and it did not mention servicing the muffler. I forgot to see if there was anything in the owners manual. I will try to remember tomorrow. If you wind up doing this service could you please let me know how that went? Wondering how much crud would come out.

Your pictures seem good enough to see what is going on. I don't see the square headed drain plug in your muffler that we can see in my M59 & not sure what that means....

BTW, I didn't remove that plug on mine to see if it would put out some carbon. I just turned it a quarter turn just to prove to myself that it was free, will wait until some day when the muffler is hot to remove it. I'm not expecting much.

Right now my inclination would be to borescope it and follow that with a snake if it seemed necessary.

Our M59 smokes heavily when starting or changing revs...but burns clean at constant RPM. The EGR valve system doesn't appear to do anything at all.
rScotty

 

[loggin]

Your pictures seem good enough to see what is going on. I don't see the square headed drain plug in your muffler that we can see in my M59 & not sure what that means....

BTW, I didn't remove that plug on mine to see if it would put out some carbon. I just turned it a quarter turn just to prove to myself that it was free, will wait until some day when the muffler is hot to remove it. I'm not expecting much.

Right now my inclination would be to borescope it and follow that with a snake if it seemed necessary.

Our M59 smokes heavily when starting or changing revs...but burns clean at constant RPM. The EGR valve system doesn't appear to do anything at all.
rScotty

Thanks for your responses rScotty! I understand not wanting to mess with the exhaust unless you have to. From what I can tell the EGR on my machine is simply taking the positive crankcase ventilation gases and reintroducing them into the intake manifold. I believe older machines use to just vent to outside air.

 

[wmonroe]

My owner’s manual doesn’t mention this but to it I’m going to see if there is anything on the muffler that needs cleaned.

 

[mikester]

I'm guilty of treating cleaning the exhaust screens like doing the recommendation of replacing my rad hoses and clamps every 2 years. I'll do it if there's a problem.

 

[Bavarian]

Your pictures seem good enough to see what is going on. I don't see the square headed drain plug in your muffler that we can see in my M59 & not sure what that means....

BTW, I didn't remove that plug on mine to see if it would put out some carbon. I just turned it a quarter turn just to prove to myself that it was free, will wait until some day when the muffler is hot to remove it. I'm not expecting much.

Right now my inclination would be to borescope it and follow that with a snake if it seemed necessary.

Our M59 smokes heavily when starting or changing revs...but burns clean at constant RPM. The EGR valve system doesn't appear to do anything at all.
rScotty

I looked at the pictures that you posted earlier. What makes you think your tractor has EGR?

 

[rScotty]

I looked at the pictures that you posted earlier. What makes you think your tractor has EGR?

There's no doubt about the EGR. I don't know how many other years or models had this particular EGR system even within the Kubota line. In fact that's one of my questions. I also don't know if other tractor manufacturers used a similar EGR between 2007 & 2014. But Tier IV Interim Emissions regs allowed for all sorts of chicanery in emissions during those years. Kubota chose an ACTIVE EGR system to make this particular engine meet the letter of those regulations while ignoring the reasons. This EGR was attached to their popular 148 ci engine from roughly 2007 to 2015? I'm not sure about the exact years.

Kubota calls it an EGR, but it is only vaguely similar to the passive old EGR we saw on American cars a few decades back. That one was just a passive pressure balance tube & rattle valve between the crankcase and the intake manifold.

For one thing, Kubota's EGR is anything but passive. It is turbo-driven pressurized system, metering water-cooled exhaust gases back into the intake air flow. Injected and controlled by engine temperature and valved through a fairly complex control gadget (the actual EGR) with valves and springs. You can't see that EGR controller in the photo because it is on the other side of the engine. But in that photo you might be able to see the exhaust gas cooler. I'll go look....

EDIT: Yes, you can see the cooler. In the photo with message #6 it is right above the starter.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I'm guilty of treating cleaning the exhaust screens like doing the recommendation of replacing my rad hoses and clamps every 2 years. I'll do it if there's a problem.

Mike, if it was as simple as screens I'd have cleaned them. But Kubota didn't make it so nice and easy. Near as I can tell, the muffler would need to come off. Maybe we ought to modify it so we can look inside?

There's about a hundred maintenance things I ought to do to our M59. It is just so incredibly rugged that I don't do what I should. It may just be the best tractor Kubota ever built. A classic. Sure is a well-built machine. It's just crazy that the FEL bucket can lift almost 4000 lbs full height. What a powerhouse.

Uh...Does anyone really replace those radiator hoses? I feel good if I remember to inspect them every few years!

At least I did needle-inject grease into the steering boots this Fall. I feel real good about that. Kubota missed that spot. And this was the year to replaced battery & cable ends. AGM forever!

Time to replace the teeth on the BH bucket - I have them but haven't done it. New tarp & new tie downs for this winter....if winter ever comes. So far, no snow or cold weather here.

And I did take it for a couple of mile road trip at full throttle this Fall just to let the engine blow any soot out. Maybe next year I'll do that with the EGR re-connected to see if it makes any difference.
rScotty

 

[5030]

Neither of my M9's have mufflers. I removed them years ago. The turbo's quiet them down enough to not be obnoxious. Besides, I like hearing the turbo's spool up and a lot less junk under the 'Bonnets' (hoods).

 

[Bavarian]

There's no doubt about the EGR. I don't know how many other years or models had this particular EGR system even within the Kubota line. In fact that's one of my questions. I also don't know if other tractor manufacturers used a similar EGR between 2007 & 2014. But Tier IV Interim Emissions regs allowed for all sorts of chicanery in emissions during those years. Kubota chose an ACTIVE EGR system to make this particular engine meet the letter of those regulations while ignoring the reasons. This EGR was attached to their popular 148 ci engine from roughly 2007 to 2015? I'm not sure about the exact years.

Kubota calls it an EGR, but it is only vaguely similar to the passive old EGR we saw on American cars a few decades back. That one was just a passive pressure balance tube & rattle valve between the crankcase and the intake manifold.

For one thing, Kubota's EGR is anything but passive. It is turbo-driven pressurized system, metering water-cooled exhaust gases back into the intake air flow. Injected and controlled by engine temperature and valved through a fairly complex control gadget (the actual EGR) with valves and springs. You can't see that EGR controller in the photo because it is on the other side of the engine. But in that photo you might be able to see the exhaust gas cooler. I'll go look....

EDIT: Yes, you can see the cooler. In the photo with message #6 it is right above the starter.

rScotty

I did notice that cylinder style item. But it seems weird to put exhaust gases into the crankcase.
I did expect to see a line being teed into the exhaust after the turbo, running through a cooler, a control valve and finally into the air intake.

 

[rScotty]

Neither of my M9's have mufflers. I removed them years ago. The turbo's quiet them down enough to not be obnoxious. Besides, I like hearing the turbo's spool up and a lot less junk under the 'Bonnets' (hoods).

I agree with what 5030 is saying, removing back pressure from a turbo can only help it last longer & run better. And the turbo does do a good job of changing the exhaust note. It's no longer a bark, more of a constant roar. And yes, on our JD310 that uses the turbo for most of the muffling you can hear it spool. On the M59 there is no turbo noise at all and I always wonder if it is working, and when it works. Maybe I should put a gauge on it.

 

[rScotty]

I did notice that cylinder style item. But it seems weird to put exhaust gases into the crankcase.
I did expect to see a line being teed into the exhaust after the turbo, running through a cooler, a control valve and finally into the air intake.

Yes, and that's exactly what happens. The cooled gases go through a pipe to the other side and are fed into the air intake manifold via the EGR control valve.

But you have to ask yourself, "Why? or rather, WHY??"

Where is the advantage to all the parts & plumbing just to run hot depleted gases back through the combustion chamber? What's the good in doing that?
Basic thermodynamics will tell you that a loss in efficiency is inevitable, and that loss can only be be offset by burning more fuel - and thus creating more carbon.

And in fact that is exactly what it does. Someone noticed that the Interim Tier IV regs allowed more soot if NOx is reduced. Which is exactly what this system does. NOx is reduced in one narrow rpm range not often used on this model tractor; soot is increased substantially in all ranges.

It's a system designed by legislation over common sense.
rScotty