Low hour diesel engine failure.

[Gale Hawkins]

JD can make it right and will if you can find the right person unless there is black and white proof you did something wrong. Stay with them on this matter. The fact service managers have changed is good for your case.

 

[cowski]

i bet you got water in the engine .not from the fuel but from the intake or exhaust.i am not familiar where that tractor is from.if it was shipped on a ship maybe water got in it before you got it. pitted valves and stuck rings happens when moisture gets in.

 

[joshuabardwell]

He basically said that he wanted to get it fixed and running before we talked any type of money for repair.

How does that work? I'm going to fix it, and I'll tell you later how much it is going to cost you? If he wants to fix it for free, that's his prerogative, but it seems to me like he at least needs to provide you with a quote for the work he's going to perform before he starts working.

 

[Alien]

As a retired mechanic, Without knowing any facts, it sounds like oil has never been changed, or wrong oil, or, the motor has done a darn sight more than 330 hours. Whatever the reason I am interested in the outcome. Maybe the ring gap was not set correctly at the factory? Remember, oil assists cooling of the motor by preventing friction and taking heat away particularly from the valve stems and pistons. If they get sticky they burn out.

 

[Bigfoot62]

You definitely need to talk to a Deere regional service rep. Bring him up to speed on all the details, (how long it's been in the shop, fuel analysis, etc) and ask him to help. I'll bet that you get some action.

 

[megaboz]

I think the theory with the cracked head (or head gasket) allowing exhaust gas into the intake sounds more plausible.

The mechanics typically at the shops aren't always the most experienced. But it seems like the burden of proving neglect is on the dealer. So they should have done oil/fuel analysis to back up their claims that it was user caused.

For the expense of repairing, it might be worth getting a lawyer involved or arbitrator as needed.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The fact they have had your tractor three months means they are clueless to what happened and it is not fixed moves this to be 100% a problem owned by JD. You will not need a lawyer I expect but you must put down roots until this is resolved.
There is someone with the ability to say FIX IT and you will have your tractor back.

 

[ORCM]

Yeah, what is funny is the service manager (Not there anymore.) was kind of fighting me with the testing. He was telling me that testing was my responsibility, and I needed to find the place to do it. However, the mechanics said they thought that samples were taken and sent off for analysis.

I want to hear the results of the Head inspection, and then I'm going to ask to talk to Deere.

The other thing that pisses me off is they sold the loaner I had, and I'm tractorless.

Also forgot to mention, the dealer is selling out to industrial Deere dealer. Deal Shouldn't be completed by Sept. Hopefully I have my tractor back by then.

 

[ORCM]

As a retired mechanic, Without knowing any facts, it sounds like oil has never been changed, or wrong oil, or, the motor has done a darn sight more than 330 hours. Whatever the reason I am interested in the outcome. Maybe the ring gap was not set correctly at the factory? Remember, oil assists cooling of the motor by preventing friction and taking heat away particularly from the valve stems and pistons. If they get sticky they burn out.

I change the oil myself, every fall. So it has less than the required change at 100hrs.

Look in my prior post, it shows the brand of oil I use. Certified diesel engine oil, 10W-30.

 

[ORCM]

What do you think of this scenario. The head was the original problem, that caused it not to start/stay running. The dealer played a lot with the fuel system i.e. Injectors, pump, and timing. While they were doing this, they keep cranking the engine. I know that it was very black, sooty smoke that came out when I had it. With all that cranking, I wonder if they sooted the cylinders. Thoughts?

 

[Domush]

It would have to be a LOT of cranking to be a noticeable glob of soot.

 

[KennedyDiesel]

I would suggest moving up to a 15w40 oil if you have any sort of decent summer temps.

As for the cracked head passing exhaust to intake that would need to be quite a gaping hole. A small crack would not allow a ton of exhaust to travel unless there was a major pressure differential and even the it would be just a crude form of EGR. These engines burn pretty darn clean to begin with.

It does sound like it was run hot and hard by the way the rings were baked and/or a lube related failure. Heat can be a cause of severe pitting and bearings can look fine even though the top end is getting baked.

 

[ORCM]

I would suggest moving up to a 15w40 oil if you have any sort of decent summer temps.

As for the cracked head passing exhaust to intake that would need to be quite a gaping hole. A small crack would not allow a ton of exhaust to travel unless there was a major pressure differential and even the it would be just a crude form of EGR. These engines burn pretty darn clean to begin with.

It does sound like it was run hot and hard by the way the rings were baked and/or a lube related failure. Heat can be a cause of severe pitting and bearings can look fine even though the top end is getting baked.

10w-30 is what my manual says, and that it's good upto 90-100degs. Which we rarely make in this area of the state.

Always took along time for the oil to get black. I would think that if it was cooking, it would see signs of coking.

 

[ORCM]

Shop time: 2 months 1 week 6 days.

Called them, to find out what was up with the head. He said that head was "Slightly warped", and three of the valves were leaking (Good job lapping the valves huh). So they machined the head, and valves.

Funny didn't know gas/contaminated fuel can warp a head.

So, I never had the unit over heat, ever. The cylinder walls were pristine, with no signs of thermal damage. I am wondering if I got a bad motor out of the box.

 

[rasimmo]

Sounds like that head may have slipped through the QC checks at the engine plant. That sort of thing happens from time to time. That is what the waranty is for. They should cover it without any issues.

 

[dodge man]

Were all the rings stuck, or just one hole? Could be the warped head, or bad head gasket was allowing small amounts of water in to that cylinder and caused all the problems. Maybe a stuck injector over fueling that one cylinder would also cause a problem, but you would think you'd be making oil. Did the oil ever check over full?

It seems like all the other ideas, such as the wrong oil, would only be a factor if this thing had 3000 hours on it, not 300.

 

[ORCM]

Were all the rings stuck, or just one hole? Could be the warped head, or bad head gasket was allowing small amounts of water in to that cylinder and caused all the problems. Maybe a stuck injector over fueling that one cylinder would also cause a problem, but you would think you'd be making oil. Did the oil ever check over full?

It seems like all the other ideas, such as the wrong oil, would only be a factor if this thing had 3000 hours on it, not 300.

All rings were stuck.

Oil was never high.

I'm thinking that your right about the head leaking small amounts of coolant, and craping everything up.

 

[KennedyDiesel]

Shop time: 2 months 1 week 6 days.

Called them, to find out what was up with the head. He said that head was "Slightly warped", and three of the valves were leaking (Good job lapping the valves huh). So they machined the head, and valves.

Funny didn't know gas/contaminated fuel can warp a head.

So, I never had the unit over heat, ever. The cylinder walls were pristine, with no signs of thermal damage. I am wondering if I got a bad motor out of the box.

Gasoline contaminated diesel as well as diesel contaminated gas can play all kinds of havoc depending on the blend. A lot of the wrong fuel and the engine will simply not combust it. A little of the wrong fuel and things go unnoticed, but a fair bit of gas can greatly affect the burn rate be it peanut butter in chocolate or chocolate in peanut butter.

If it was anti freeze in the oil it would eat the bearings aggressively. It would also show in an oil analysis.

 

[ORCM]

Gasoline contaminated diesel as well as diesel contaminated gas can play all kinds of havoc depending on the blend. A lot of the wrong fuel and the engine will simply not combust it. A little of the wrong fuel and things go unnoticed, but a fair bit of gas can greatly affect the burn rate be it peanut butter in chocolate or chocolate in peanut butter.

If it was anti freeze in the oil it would eat the bearings aggressively. It would also show in an oil analysis.

If it was fuel contamination in the amount that would not effect how the motor runs, it would have to be a huge volume. The first thing that would go in this case would be the injector pump, or the injectors.

There may have been just enough coolant leaking to crap things up.

 

[ORCM]

Stop by the dealer yesterday, and the tractor is running!

The Tech. was there, and I got to talk to him for awhile. He said the head was pretty warped, and they had to machine it. They also had to grind some of the valves, because they were still leaking.

So, the only thing that I know will warp a head is heat. The idot light has never come on, and it has never acted hot i.e. no steam, water blowing out ect. If the head was so warped why wasn't there coolent leaking in or out of the motor? Never had to add coolent, and it looked nice and green.:mur::anyone: