Looking for Welding Advice

[JoelD]

Hi all,
I've read through the postings on attaching chain hooks to my loader (Kioti LK3054xs TLB). I've got my 3 inch channel with 1/4 wall thickness and my weld one chain hook. Now I would like to know what you think I should use for rods and settings on my welder, I'm never quite sure what to use. I've got a miller bluestar DC machine (up to 180+ amp).

What rod type and diameter should I use to attach the hook to the channel and then the channel to the bucket? What amperage settings would you recommend.

I guess practicing more would help but that seems sorta anticlimactic.

I'm thinking 6013 or 7014? Never sure what to use for diameter or amperage, although the machine has a sticker with amperage gauge and I've read through the miller handbook on welding.

Thanks for any help.

Sincerely,
Joel

 

[Sandlot]

Clean metal? 3/32" 7018, you will need to play with the amps. Start around 75. I would play around on some scrap. Every machine is different.

 

[Mastertech]

Ah welding. Now there is a subject that I know a little about. I am fairly new to the tractor world.

6010 welding rods penetrate deeply but have high spatter. They are good for all positions, all types of st eel, and almost any conditions and use DC current. (For better penetration on thicker steel over 3/8," bevel the edges and create a gap of about 1/8" wide; use 6010 for tack up and a root pass and weld the remaining passes and the "cap pass" with 7018.) 6010 welding rods need to be stored in a dry location, at room temperature, and in a sealed container.

6011 welding rods have all the characteristics of 6010, are used in all positions with AC or DC current, and work well on all types of regular or mild steel.

6013 has all the characteristics of 6010 but can be used with AC or DC current; it has less penetration and delivers a better-looking weld. Use 6013 on light sheet metal up to 3/16."

Use 7018 low-hy, low penetration, on all positions, with AC or DC current. Use the highest amp setting as practical. Use a straightforward "drag" progression with a "short arc." The low moisture make-up of this welding rod reduces chemical reactions in the weld itself and makes for the highest quality x-ray perfect welds. (Note - this electrode must be kept dry. If it's exposed to humid air or gets damp it must be dried in a rod oven before use. .)

Use 7024 high deposition welding rods for flat and horizontal positions. It's "easy" to use because its thick flux automatically maintains the correct arc length, which allows you to "drag" the rod.

 

[bearhawk]

I have to go into the "Way Back" machine, but from what I remember we used to use 6013 for most things. We usually didn't weld anything over 1/8 inch.

But I also remember 7014 ? as a good "weld on the bench" rod where you can position the work flat.

I believe that you can buy 1lb boxes of rod at the welding shop. And then Practice, Practice, Practice. before you weld anything that is going to have any stress on it.

There is NO shame in asking somebody that has a little experience welding to well these hooks on for you.

Safety first..

 

[montanaman]

Hi all,

I guess practicing more would help but that seems sorta anticlimactic.


Sincerely,
Joel

Anticlimactic is good! Grinding all the stuff back out because you didn't practice is bad :-(

I like 7018 because it looks so pretty but for a job like this, I would use my Millermatic 200 because I can.

I really can't stress enough that you should practice, practice, practice!! It will take time and material but you will have a nice looking job that you can be proud of when you are all done.

As I've said here before, if you have any vo tech schools in the area, look and see if they have adult programs in the evenings. I've taken three welding classes and a few machining classes there and it really is a lot of fun learning when you have a person there that can point out what you are doing wrong and how to do it better!

Ken

 

[JoelD]

Thanks for the responses guys, here's some pictures of the results.

I ended up going with 7014 (what I had on hand, also have 6011 and 6013).

I went with 3/32 of an inch and approximnately 70-90 amps DC.

I used the 7014 as miller indicated they were medium penetration and used fairly slow passes.

I will definately try to take a community college shop course, I took welding in 8th grade, but as you can imagine that was some time ago. Just tough with working long hours at the day job, I'm sure you guys know how that goes.

I am anxious to use the hook, my old machine had a hook and I used it all the time, makes lifting stuff possible.

Thanks again for the great notes (I've printed and archived in my Kioti binder), I like the advice of 6011 or 6010 for first passes and then final (pertty) passes with 7014 or 7024.

Based on the lift capacity of the loader I think I should be good with my weld job, if not, will re-do with the deeper penetrating rods.

Again,
Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
Joel

 

[JoelD]

Sorry cap pas with "7018".

Thanks,
Joel

 

[Mastertech]

Wow Joel! Of course nobody has x-ray eyes but those are some good lookin beads!!!!

 

[JoelD]

Thank you very much for the kind words.

I read through the miller guidance a couple of times last night. I think in the past I was rushing the weld, using sticks way too thick and running the bead way to fast and not focusing on the arc.

This time I went real slow, short arc and focused on the puddle, working to keep the stick at a fairly perpendicular angle rather than almost 45 degree as I had in the past. And I let the puddle move real slow, try to get a good blend of penetration and puddle.

What helped a lot was the youtube video one of the guys here posted, I realized how slow he was moving the stick compared to how quickly I had been moving the stick.

That with all the quality advice people like you and others offered, really improved my work product.

I would still like to take some classes though, I realize this is a very technical thing.

Always admired pipefitters who can get a water tight seal out of a weld, impressive stuff to us bean counters.

Again, thank you.
Joel

 

[JoelD]

How do you like the three point boom? I've often thought of getting or building one, I bet super handy, not sure how much use I'd get compared to the loader and chains?

 

[Big Wave D]

JoelD,
Looks like you can now use your improved welding skills to "fix" your C-clamp that gave its life for this project.

Nice Job!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I wish my welding looked at great. I am trying to learn again. I have found some good info over at WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts - Powered by vBulletin

 

[IXLR8]

Joel,
I had a "bucket buddy" made and then I made up a boom to go into that. It has worked out great for lifting things.

BUCKET BUDDY;

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng/93535-bucket-buddy-instead-weld-hooks.html

BOOM POLE;

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/132347-built-boom-pole-have-tractor.html

 

[Gary Fowler]

I suppose you are adding more hooks than the one in the photo. I would put one more on each side centered at the lift point attachment. Also the skip welds should be at least 2" long and preferable 3" on 12" centers and staggered across from each other on each side. This equalizes the forces along the entire length. Also for a stronger weld, weld from each end to the middle, in other words dont leave the end of your weld with the puddle exposed. THis is a weak point in the weld and susceptible to start of a crack.
7014 make pretty welds but sometime become highly brittle after welding. 7018 are much more ductile. For carbon steel with a DC machine, you cant bet the 6010/ 7018 combo. Use the 6010 for tacking and first pass and for anything needing deep penetration and then grind out all the slag and fill it and cap with 7018 carefully removing all the slag between passes and you will have a weld that will last a lifetime. One other tip, the angle of the rod is usually centered equally between the two base metals except if you are welding overhead then you want to point it toward the top piece more. I don't know if that is a clear explanation or not.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

pffffft...double post...:shocked::shocked:

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Gary,

A 7018 should not be used unless it can be stored in a rod oven or come fresh out of a sealed metal can with the old fashioned soda can pop top on it. That's why they are known as low hydrogen.

A 7014 if the metal is prepped is a fine rod. Most cracking or brittleness from it is caused by contamination...or poor fit up.

Otherwise, you could successfully weld it all the way out with the 6011, though it might not be as pretty. Strength won't be an issue if it is properly welded.

 

[tubewelder87]

hello new to the forum not new to welding. I really like your 7013 welds but if you will slow your passes just a little more and when you flick your rod make them a little smaller you will get a little better fill and not have that concave look. what the call in my world undercut. And like some of the other guys said you need those skip welds alittle longer and closer together. But in the farm world that is a awesome job that you should be proud of!!!! I agree with the guys on the 7018 it welds the smoothest and also is some of the strongest welds that you can make. and with all of the talk about keeping them in a oven. I always heat my rods when i make xray welds other than that i dont worry about it or i just put the torch on them and heat them up till i think they are about 300 degrees (plenty hot to evaporate any moisture)!! the moisture will cause a little problem where the base metal and weld metal meet but is so small that I dont think it will hurt anything in the tractor world. but this is just my two cents worth!!!

p.s. just wanted to say again good looking welds!!!

 

[Gary Fowler]

I guess I can agree somewhat with Mark on the 7018 about storage but I wouldnt say not to use them at all. If you use 7018 you should invest in a rod storage oven and keep it powered up at all time so the rods stay hot. For most of the folks on this site, underbead cracking because of high moisture in the coating will likely not cause a problem with their welds. Proper storage is essential for all rods though, not just 7018 if you want consistently good weld results Even 6010, 6011 and 6013 need to be properly stored in a dry place. They dont require and should not be heated, but they have to stay dry otherwise you can get core wire rust under the flux and that will give you some bad porosity in the welds. Here is a website that gives a run down for most rods and how to store AND recondition them. I work in construction in the quality control side of things and we dont allow reconditioning of rods. They have to be kept hot after the seal is broken. Any rods left out have to be thrown away. This may seem wasteful to some, but a 50 lb. can of rods can cost more in repairs of bad xray welds than 500 lbs of rods.
Recommended Storage of Electrodes

 

[gauthier]

I use 6010plus rods on about everything,amps,you need however many you need,is the answer,less on thin stuff[blow through],more on thicker stuff[no blow through,more penatration],start at about 90 amps for 3/32,maybe 110 for 1/8th,if they ain't running right adjust[hotter = easier to run,more penatration,colder=harder to run,less chance of blow through. Same with any rod,7018 or 6010. Most steels tensil strength[mild steel,stuff most would be welding on] is way lower than 60,000 psi[which is what a 6010 is],around 36,000 I think give or take is what most steel commonly used are,7018 is 70,000,but...you don't need a rod oven with 6010,you use it on dcep.[not an ac rod].

 

[yomax4]

Please note. You are not Stuck with 6011-7018 rods. There are many specialty companies that offer just what you are after ie: MG 80T, 80,000 tensile, Good Ductilitiy, runs like 6013, Welco 83-88, 80,000 tensile 6011 and a hundred others. Keep 7018 in a controlled temp location and or buy 7018MR for Moisture Resistance and you will be ok. If you still have trouble and you do a Ton of Welding...Buy MIG and forget about it...